Why I need the abiity to reply to messages and why GPS is useless to me

[Escodaiichi]

I thought it might be useful to explain why someone like me needs the ability to reply to messages on a smartwatch. I'm not sure what whoever it was who made the decision not to include this was thinking, but I hope that they are realizing that this was a pretty big fail. I can imagine that the whole former Pebble team that was brought on argued for it, only to be condescendingly dismissed by some clueless suits. Okay, so I have an active imagination....

Anyway, for starters, I currently wear both a Pebble Time and a fitbit Charge HR. I'm a tour guide by trade, and take people all over the western United States. Sometimes, a lot of the times, actually, I also have to double as the driver, which means I can be behind the wheel six to eight hours a day. It's etiquette in our industry not to be standing around, messing with our phones, because even though it might be job-related, it conveys the impression that we are not paying attention to our guests. Additionally, it is illegal in most states to be messing with your phone while you're driving, and even without that, it's a great way to get into an accident, which means both physical and professional death in my industry.

As pertaining to messaging, I get probably close to fifty a day, about half of which can be work-related. While I'm driving, the ability to send or reply to a canned message quickly and discreetly with the push of a button protects the safety of my guests as well as letting the tour company/travel agency/optional activity provider/hotel/colleague/family member/friend know that I have received their message and that we are on the same page. I don't need to stop the car and pull out my phone, which means that we arrive alive and on time.

It's the same at venues, sans the safety factor. I can reply to a message while appearing to remain engaged in the activity at hand, and there's the added benefit of appearing to be checking the time, which when seen by my guests on several occasions (especially when smartwatches were new and unknown) caused them to be mindful of the time themselves. I even overheard one of them say, "He's looking at the time, it must be about time to go."

The Charge HR has been great for tracking my activity, especially since we do a lot of hiking and walking in general. I topped 50,000 steps one day, and was more than happy to collect Cowboy boot badge with the cactus and buttes in the background. However, I don't need a GPS for this; I know where I am, and I otherwise work out in hotel fitness centers. The added accuracy doesn't make that much difference when you're at the same places all of the time.

My Pebble Time and my Charge are both pretty accurate with the step counts; at least, they more or less agree with each other. When Pebble announced the Pebble Time 2 with the heart rate sensor, I thought I might be able to ditch the fitbit and have a single device for all of it. With the buyout, I assumed the same thing, just thought I would have to wait a little longer. With all the press releases and hype, my hopes were high for the Ionic, but without messaging functionality, it just amounts to replacing the old device on my left wrist with a much larger, more expensive device that does only slightly more than the Charge.

Don't get me wrong; I'm excited about some of the changes. I would love to be able to launch a podcast from my watch to keep me awake while driving, and being able to sync my bluetooth phone earpiece to the Ionic means I won't have to throw away money on bluetooth headphones to be able to enjoy that. Thing is, other devices already do that, and I can message with them, so....

What I think I'll probably do is stick around here for a few more weeks and see what happens. My Charge is falling apart, but it still attaches to my wrist, so I'm not in a rush. My Pebble Time still works great, and should continue to work with Rebble for quite some time. If, within the next few weeks, the Ionic implements the ability to respond to texts, either with canned messages or with handwriting like the Apple 3, I'll probably pick one up; otherwise, my phone is Samsung, and they make a pretty good health tracker that can message, so I'll give them a harder look.

I really don't know how fitbit could have missed with messaging functionality, but man, what a HUGE miss.

[SunsetRunner]

This is Fitbit's first foray into an actual smartwatch. I would not expect it to have every feature available. It is still first and foremost a fitness watch. They have also made an SDK kit available to developers which may ultimately result in what you are looking for. Give them some time.

[Bejammin]

I recognise what you are saying Patruns, and I think you are right that people should keep some perspective and not be angry or disrespectful - at the end of the day, this is a luxury product.  In terms of waiting for Fitbit to figure itself out however, I respectfully disagree. 

This may be Fitbit's first foray into an actual smartwatch, but for £300 / $300 no customer owes them time or patience (other than above, being respectful and showing simple decency).  The day of launch, the Ionic should have at least approximated everything a Pebble does while also approximating everything an Alta HR or Charge does.  As far as I am concerned, that has been the bargain since Fitbit bought Pebble and abruptly shuttered the company.  If I am confused on that, then Fitbit really needs to change its marketing of this device.  I am pretty deeply disappointed in Fitbit at this stage for rushing a device this expensive to market while seemingly only consulting with the fitness-focussed portion of their user base.  Simply put, Ionic is not yet an actual smartwatch - it is a beautiful and full-featured fitness tracker which may yet become a smartwatch. 

I agree with basically everything that Escodaiichi is saying above - for this device to make sense at even half its current price, I need to be able to:

1. Mark messages Read / Dismissed on the watch and have that status instantly update on the phone

2. Respond in brief with customisable "canned" messages from the watch without taking out my phone

3. See my calendar / schedule on the watch without taking out my phone.

In terms of my work productivity I (very nearly) need a smartwatch with the above features.  In terms of health and fitness, I just really want a fitness tracker.  Ionic delivers on the fitness tracker in spades, but it scarcely delivers on the smartwatch at all.

A smartwatch isn't smart if it doesn't reduce the need to whip out a smartphone, and unfortunately that is where Ionic currently sits.  Fitbit can't rely on customer goodwill and 3rd party developers to deliver on the (admittedly great) potential of this device.

I foresee myself and a lot of other users with a similar "almost need" / "definitely only want" feature breakdown to hang on for another week or two and then return the Ionic unless Fitbit can very quickly meet or beat the basic smartwatch performance of the Pebble, a device that is still available for one-third the price of the Ionic.

[WavyDavey]

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@Escodaiichi wrote:

 Additionally, it is illegal in most states to be messing with your phone while you're driving, and even without that, it's a great way to get into an accident, which means both physical and professional death in my industry.

As pertaining to messaging, I get probably close to fifty a day, about half of which can be work-related. While I'm driving, the ability to send or reply to a canned message quickly and discreetly with the push of a button protects the safety of my guests as well as letting the tour company/travel agency/optional activity provider/hotel/colleague/family member/friend know that I have received their message and that we are on the same page. I don't need to stop the car and pull out my phone, which means that we arrive alive and on time.

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I'm curious how you can reply with a single button push. Isn't there more than one canned message?  How are you going to do that and keep both hands on the wheel? How is what you're describing safer than using a phone while driving?

[Escodaiichi]

Where I live, you're not required to keep both hands on the wheel. If that were a law, all manual transmission vehicles would be outlawed.

I did a text search in my post for the phrase, "single button push" and didn't find it, so I don't know how to answer that part of your question. What I did say was that I could answer a message with "the push of a button," not specifying a single push or even a single button. Even if I push the button 10,000 times to answer a message, it is still answered with the push of a button. 

[Bejammin]

By way of additional context, because I desperately want Fitibit to just implement some version of exactly what I have come to rely on with Pebble:

With the Pebble Time (which I use), you've got four buttons: Up, down, center, (on right side) and Back (left side).

When you get a message, you can hit the centre button to bring up the actions / options and hit this button again to Dismiss / Mark Read.  If the only thing you need is for the other party to know that you're reading it, you're done here.

If you need to reply, then you'll be hitting the centre button and then down for "Canned Message" and using the up/down buttons to select.  So you're looking at a maximum of 3-4 button presses, which you can normally do without needing to look at the screen once you are familiar with the device.

Would this pass legal tests for using devices while driving?  Not sure about that, and it will depend on whether local laws prohibit phones specifically or electronic devices / distracted driving more broadly.  Is it safer, faster and less noticeable to an authority figure than messing with a smartphone?  Without a doubt.

If I am driving, I am willing to mark a message as Read / Dismissed so that it's plain I am in radio contact and this takes 2 taps of the same button.  I am less willing to go through the Canned Messages myself because it does take a few more taps to do them.  Either way, it's a matter of fractions of a second to several seconds to send these messages in this way.  Other than the safety considerations while driving, it's a dramatic time saver compared with pulling out a phone and trying to accomplish the same thing.  Here's a Youtube video that shows it - it's a very old iteration which has improved significantly now, but I can't seem to find a more up to date version at the moment.  This will at least give you a general sense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkLOhr_eyPA

You can also get a sense of how the reply system works by watching this person test the Voice Reply:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eG_OmN2wn0

Hopefully that provides some extra explanation.  You clearly couldn't keep two hands on the wheel while doing this, but you could keep the hand with the watch on it on the wheel.

[MattJ71]

This is a software issue that can be addressed with a firmware update.  I'm sure Fitbit will include this or a developer will create an app for it.  Just hang tight, the hardware is more than capable... the software will come.

[FastEddy-]

Hi,

I read a lot of reviews before I decided to buy the Ionic. Some were positive, some were negative. Most of them stated that the ionic would a great fitness-tracker with limited smart-phone functionality. Well, the so called limited smart-phone functionality is just right for me and a great full featured fitness-tracker and motivator it is. I knew how much it would cost me and I bought it. It is doing a great job, I'm very happy with it.

So, if you know what you get and know what you have to pay for it, it is your decision if it suits you or not. If you think it 'should have' some functionality that it just doesn't have you better not buy it.

Regards,

Edwin.

[Bejammin]

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@FastEddy- wrote:

Well, the so called limited smart-phone functionality is just right for me and a great full featured fitness-tracker and motivator it is. I knew how much it would cost me and I bought it. It is doing a great job, I'm very happy with it.

So, if you know what you get and know what you have to pay for it, it is your decision if it suits you or not. If you think it 'should have' some functionality that it just doesn't have you better not buy it.

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I hear you on this, and you are right.  I read many reviews as well, but I wasn't successful in getting a clear idea of the limits of notification handling and communications ability from these reviews.

I think that you are perfectly representative of the buyer who will be happy with this device - someone who is happy to buy a better, fancier and vastly more expensive Fitbit that does a few things Fitbit devices didn't do in the past.  Nobody held a gun to my head and forced me to buy the device.  I ultimately will likely have to return my Ionic, because I do think that it both 'should have' and easily 'could have had' a whole range of functionality which I can't tell whether Fitbit thought just wasn't important, or thought could wait, or... what.

I am not trying to be the stereotype of a petulant consumer here - I genuinely want this device to work for me, and I believe that I represent a very substantial portion of Fitbit's customer base or potential customer base.  I am here not primarily to whine or put Fitbit down, but because I think that these posts can be useful to Fitbit.  Essentially, they've nailed the fitness tracker and that is great.  However, I was perfectly happy with my Fitbit One until I lost it, and I have upgraded to the Ionic from a Pebble Time on one wrist with a Fitbit Alta HR on the other wrist because the promise of one Fitbit device to replace both of those was so tantalising that I was willing to drop this much cash on it.

I'm an early adopter like everybody else here at this stage, and I recognise that not everything can happen instantly.  It seems like Fitbit may have genuinely missed people like me, who will pay a premium for the fitness tracking of their devices but who are actually far more concerned with the basic smartwatch functions.  I don't think Fitbit is being malicious, and I don't think they've intentionally misled me... But misled me they have with claims that this IS a smartwatch, rather than that it will eventually become one.  It's a super flash fitness tracker, which is fine for you and for many other customers.  However for me, and I think for the majority of buyers who may have imagined themselves as migrating toward Fitbit after the Pebble purchase - that's nowhere near good enough to justify the price.

Fitbit is almost certainly capable of fixing most of this in the very, very near term if they determine that it is important enough.  I want to make sure that I state my expectations and specific issues with the device in the clearest and most direct way so that if someone from Fitbit is reading this, they can get some insight into the mind of anybody like me and decide how important and possible it is to please that particular vocal group.

If these things aren't sorted in coming weeks, I'll return the device and keep a close eye on these forums and on upcoming reviews.  When I'm certain that Fitbit is actually going to deliver a fitness smartwatch, I'll want it.  To my mind, the Ionic just doesn't represent that yet.

[FastEddy-]

Hi Bejammin,

Thanks for your reply on my post.

From my perspective I bought a great device but I do see what you mean. I don't agree with you on all points, but let's not run around in circles here.

I really hope Fitbit will make you a just as happy customer as I am. Let's see what happens.

Regards,

Edwin.

[USAF-Larry]

....and, on the other hand, I absolutely never check messages or notifications while I am driving, so being able to reply to them is not an issue with me. No one will text me anything that is so important that I must address it while driving....

[datalore]

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@USAF-Larry wrote:

....and, on the other hand, I absolutely never check messages or notifications while I am driving, so being able to reply to them is not an issue with me. No one will text me anything that is so important that I must address it while driving....

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I'm with you Larry. I think this whole thread is fascinating. It gets down to what do you want a smartwatch to do. For me it's health and fitness; I actually put my phone in the glove compartment while driving, so notifications mean nothing to me. I understand others have different expectations and that's just life. It seems like the ionic is simply not the tool for everyone. I would agree that fitbit has some software problems that they need to iron out, and probably most ionic buyers would agree with that. I'm waiting on Black Friday and hope to pick it up after the software kinks are worked out and hopefully at a small discount. I like what I'm seeing so far from the developer community and I think this watch is going to live up to its potential. I would be upset if it didn't meet my expectations, so that part I understand. There are horses for courses, and the truth is ionic is a fitness tracker with some smartwatch functionality. The open SDK and the fact that I can customize this watch my way are what appeal to me. I love the apple watch, but the battery life is a deal breaker for me, and I love the garmin vivoactive, but the muddled software is a deal breaker for that one. Having said all that, taste is subjective and it's useless to try and change someone's mind on matters of preference. I hope everyone finds a tool that works for them. I think I have with the ionic. 

[WavyDavey]

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@USAF-Larry wrote:

....and, on the other hand, I absolutely never check messages or notifications while I am driving, so being able to reply to them is not an issue with me. No one will text me anything that is so important that I must address it while driving....

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Same here. I'm curious about if this kind of functionality is even legal everywhere while driving. From my state's DMV page on distracted driving:

"Text Messaging Bans

Sending text messages while driving is a huge distraction, but a lot of people don't realize that and still do it. It's a potentially dangerous activity because it requires you to take at least one hand off the steering wheel to type and send a message, and you can lose control of your vehicle pretty quickly that way. That's why the state of California has banned all drivers from texting, and this ban is considered a primary law. Furthermore, drivers are also prohibited from hands-free text messaging, as well as voice-operated text messaging. The text messaging fine is $20 for a first offense, and $50 for a repeat offense."

Sure we can say, "How long does it takes to look at a text message, hit a few buttons for a canned reply?"  I'd say, "takes no longer than it takes to get in an accident".

[agsurf5]

Not being able to reply I can vaguely understand as part of a new system, although I dislike the concept that we are beta testers of new products nowadays.

I assume it can be implemented at a later stage.

But the fact that clearing notifications on the watch doesn't clear them on the phone, nor the opposite work, it is simply a lapse of functionality. It should have been there from the beginning. What is point of having notification if the price to pay is to having to delete them twice?

[bbarrera]

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@agsurf5 wrote:

But the fact that clearing notifications on the watch doesn't clear them on the phone, nor the opposite work, it is simply a lapse of functionality. It should have been there from the beginning. What is point of having notification if the price to pay is to having to delete them twice?

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Notifications on all Fitbit devices is half-baked. Disappointing. 

And honestly all Fitbit has nailed is activity tracking. In the dashboard I struggle to find any true fitness trending, metrics, or tracking for that matter. It’s been years since Surge multi-sport watch was been released. Still patiently waiting. 

[SunsetRunner]

I have a fitbit surge and have been using it for several years.  I enjoy it a lot.  Fitbit was the company I decided to go with when I was looking for a device that gave constant heart rate data.

overall, I like it.

I like using fitstar as well and am looking forward to the fitbit coach.  I was excited to get the Ionic but that has been put on hold after reading about all of the issues people are having.  Fitbit should have ironed all these out before release.

While waiting for Fitbit to fix the ionic via updates, I started looking into other activity trackers / smartwatches.   I found a lot of alternatives.   What I found interesting is that Fitbit is selling the ionic for $300.00.   A lot of the alternative trackers/watches are also selling for around $300.00 (+/-) but offer a whole lot more in functionality than the Ionic.  This makes me think the Ionic is greatly overpriced.

[minigno]

Between the reviews, the information in these forums, and the posted documentation of the device itself, this was a pretty spelled out limitation. I haven't seen one review that didn't *explicitly* spell this out and list it under "con".

[Bejammin]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:
A lot of the alternative trackers/watches are also selling for around $300.00 (+/-) but offer a whole lot more in functionality than the Ionic.  This makes me think the Ionic is greatly overpriced.

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Agreed.  I read the reviews, but the long development cycle, high price point, purchase of Pebble / hiring of Pebble staff, and the repeated assertions that Ionic is a smartwatch and not just a fitness band led me to believe or at least hope that there would be some hint of things to come when the device was released.

I take the earlier point about reviews all outlining the "limited" communications / notification / reply functionality.  I may simply have been too thick to understand "limited" as described in most of the reviews I read meant "almost none, badly implemented where it does exist".  I am not suggesting that no review warned me about the Ionic's messaging capabilities, but article after article called the Ionic Fitbit's "first real smartwatch" and indicated that it would have messaging or notifications capabilities.  Repeated articles also referenced the SpO2 sensor, which as we know is not functional at launch.

I should point out that many of my posts are intended more for Fitbit than they are for my fellow Fitbit users.  I'm not trying to say that anyone is wrong for being happy with the Ionic as is, and I'm not suggesting that I'm right for thinking as I do about it.  I just want Fitibit to see that there is a customer base or profile like this.  I recognise the fact that anybody who loved the Charge / Charge 2 / Blaze and wanted just a little bit more but was happy dropping $300 / £300 on the replacement device, the Ionic is great. As it turns out, for anybody that wanted real smartwatch capabilities (meaning Pebble / Apple Watch / Android Wear-comparable smartwatch capabilities) you are largely out of luck in the US, and almost totally out of luck everywhere else - since Pandora and FitbitPay and more aren't usable elsewhere.

Fitbit purchased Pebble IP, hired Pebble staff, and halted all of Pebble's operations - suggesting that Pebble customers might ultimately want to switch to Fitbit.  My basic issue is that having built FitbitOS from Pebble's DNA, Fitbit seems to have failed to implement anything that Pebble did well.  I'm frustrated that instead of integrating the two, right now it seems they've decided to turn the bones of Pebble into a flashy and overpriced Fitbit device in the hopes that 3rd party developers will then add value to the platform for them.  Not everyone is in the same position as me, but I essentially need Pebble functionality and want Fitbit functionality.  I get that Fitbit is a fitness tracking company, but they're purportedly trying to hit a broader market with this device... by making a more expensive version of all of their other devices, broadly lacking the feature set demanded by people on the periphery of their existing market.

I'm confused more than anything else. The Ionic is a phenomenal piece of hardware in my opinion which delivers on the fitness side of things in a brilliant way, but Fitbit has catastrophically dropped the ball on smartwatch functions.

Fitbit could have smashed expectations and forever won over people like me, who've had the same basic fitness tracker for years but become heavily reliant on some other type of smartwatch, whether Pebble (low-res, very basic but reliable), Apple / Android (low battery life, doesn't integrate with Fitbit app).

I genuinely wish I could understand what the thought process was.  What would make me happiest personally would be for the Fitbit dev team to explain:

1. Why they thought it was a good idea to rush their first, heavily anticipated smartwatch to market with buggy software and next-to-no smartwatch features
2. At this price point
3. If, and then approximately when we can expect the smartwatch features of something like a basic Pebble device to be rolled out

If I could know these things I would be able to believe that Fitbit recognises that people like me exist as their customers and that Fitbit fully intends to make this device work for people like me.  If Fitbit thinks that they've made the platform and 3rd party developers are now going to create all of the value for this device then I am left with options like sending the Ionic back and going back to a Pebble and the cheapest Fitbit device I can find, or buying a now-unsupported Pebble 2 with Heart Rate tracking.

These are first world problems for sure, and I can ultimately return the device if I am not happy with it.  My problem is that I'm not sure whether Fitbit is clueless about and/or negligent of the customer like me or whether they're doing their best and if I have faith and give them time they'll deliver everything they've promised.

Either way if Fitbit wants to push the idea that they're selling a real smartwatch, they will need to do dramatically better than this for this kind of money.

[sethschroeder]

Here is the thing you talk about driving but what about in another context which would be at work like the OP describes.

The ability to discreetly to an extent at least reply with a quick response is a positive.

It really does seem like the Ionic is just another fitness tracker from Fitbit that wants to call itself a smart watch. In time it might come but at the same time as often as Fitbit releases new devices the Ionic could just be a failed first attempt before developers really jump on board especially when you consider non-fitness apps have a better landing ground with Apple Watch, Samsung Watch, and Android Watch.

Hopefully I am wrong though but the negativity that this thread has shown does not give me hope as it means Fitbit likely should be my second and cheap device instead of my primary smart watch I wear. I have 45 days for returns so we will see what comes or what rumors there are.

[Escodaiichi]

I'm starting to wonder what makes the Ionic any more of a smart watch than the Charge 2. I don't see any features that warrant calling it one....