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Will Ionic display run cadence?

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Great, all these fancy new features, but it still can't tell me my cadence while running.

 

Moderator edit: Clarified subject

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Voted for this.

I'm skeptical that Fitbit will do anything that touches Gramin's turf on running or catering for active individuals. However, Garmin doesn't have a problem in stepping into Fitbit's turf for the Iconic smart watch via the Vivoactive 3 

Garmin has been on a tear so far. Will see how well the Iconic sells in the longer term. When it comes to smart watches, Garmin hits Fitbit on the right and Apple is hitting Fitbit on the left. 

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Agreed... I want to stick with Fitbit and get the Ionic because I hate switching, but it seems like I could get all the features I want from a Garmin. I don't understand why Fitbit doesn't have a real running watch. Garmin designs and interfaces are ugly and basically not really user friendly for things outside of workouts unless you buy the super expensive watches. I don't know why Fitbit couldn't be a competitor in this space if they added things like cadence, race time estimates and pacing alerts. I would pre-order  and upgrade right now if it had those features.

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@aaaaaa3 for some reason Fitbit wants to keep things super simple, to the point you can't even easily find out how many miles you've run in a week or month. Instead miles is a feel-good stat that includes junk miles from walking around - my stride is set for exercise walking at 14 minute miles so Fitbit overestimates my miles from all those steps walking around the house or office or shopping.

 

I keep hoping for Fitbit to improve the app!

Aria, Fitbit MobileTrack on iOS. Previous: Flex, Force, Surge, Blaze

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I mean, I do like that all of my real running info is on Strava and my fitbit syncs with Strava immediately, unlike some of the older Garmin where you have to sync it with a computer. But while I'm actually running, I want to know more information about my pace - if I'm on target for a race or not. You have to do a lot of mental math and switch between screens while running (on charge 2) if you want to figure out your finish time or where you can make up time etc. Not a good experience.

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@aaaaaa3 the manual says there are 3 stats displayed during exercise, with the large middle stat being scrollable. By default the layout is:

- distance

- pace (and swipe for HR, time of day, etc)

- elapsed time

 

and the manual states you can customize the fields. So you could make pace the first field and have it always shown.

 

(re: older stuff that requires a computer... All the latest trackers and smartwatches from every vendor I've seen have Bluetooth and in some cases will even sync via WiFi.)

Aria, Fitbit MobileTrack on iOS. Previous: Flex, Force, Surge, Blaze

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My charge2 quit syncing to Strava some time ago, so I have to download the source files and upload each time I run. 

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It would be so nice to have Cadence as one of the scrollable middle stats but if you really want to see what your cadence is for training purposes you can use the "Summary" at the end of your run to easily figure it out.

 

It was suggested that tracking cadence was not a useful stat for running, that may or may not be true technically but many of us like to use it as guidance.  Other sports such as rowing depend on it so it really should be part of this fitness tracker's features.

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@MonteC, I can certainly see cadence for rowing or cycling, but for running it really is a very poor metric.  As often as not, I've seen runner misuse cadence information and attempt to unnaturally change their running style to what so-called expert says is normal.  Fact, there is no "normal", different runners run with different cadences; what is right for you may well be horribly injurious to the next person and vice-versa.

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I get it that you feel using cadence for running is a bad idea but there are many professional running coaches who endorse this training method, even to the point of having their students use metronomes to help track it.   I do not know if you are a certified trainer/coach or not but your opinion goes against many others in the field.  I am curious what you base your opinion on?

 

Back to the topic, if all the other trackers on the market have this metric to use for training purposes then I am pretty sure there is some validity to it being a credible training tool.  That is why many of us think FitBit should also include this in their trackers. 

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For the record I am planning on having a clockface that will display your last synced run's cadence as well as a simple chart depicting the last three.  Unless I hit a snag it should be available the day the app gallery launches.

 

I'll also be working on an app for simply reviewing previous activities directly on the Ionic if someone doesn't beat me to it. It's a no-brainer app idea so there's a good chance someone else is already working on it.

 

I really wanted to develop a real-time solution but that will involve coding the exercise tracking app from scratch which is definitely too big of a project for me take on as a hobby project.  Unfortunately there is no API that would allow developers to extend the native exercise app with features, we'd have to start from scratch.

 

That said I hope the development community comes together and we can start making open-source alternatives together.

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@MonteC wrote:

I get it that you feel using cadence for running is a bad idea but there are many professional running coaches who endorse this training method, even to the point of having their students use metronomes to help track it.   I do not know if you are a certified trainer/coach or not but your opinion goes against many others in the field.  I am curious what you base your opinion on?

 

Back to the topic, if all the other trackers on the market have this metric to use for training purposes then I am pretty sure there is some validity to it being a credible training tool.  That is why many of us think FitBit should also include this in their trackers. 


No, I am not a "certified" trainer or coach, nor to I believe there is such a thing.  As with everything else, there are tried and true methods and there are fads.  After years of coaching I strongly believe coaching to cadence is a fad or worse, a fraud.  For anybody who isn't a world class elite training for a very specific event/distance, training to cadence can and often does lead to injury and is more often than not, counter productive.  Even when coaching world class runners the efficacy of cadence centric training is highly debatable, especially when non-track environments are factored in.  The fact is, there are so very many variables when it comes to the cadence of any given run, or for that matter, for any given segment of any given run.

 

I am what might be called a near-elite age grouper; using my fairly extensive log of runs as tracked by my Fitbit trackers, I've seen runs with a cadence as low as 142 during a 2.5 mile race up and down a ski slope, and as high as 173 during an 11 mile road race across rolling hills.  If a runner is coached to run at a specific cadence, the odds are pretty good they'll be sub-optimal unless they're running the exact course and distance they've been training in.  Not good.

 

For my part, I would much rather coach a runner to develop his or her own sense of what stride is appropriate for any given conditions.  The following is kind of the general guideline I use for coaching those with stride/cadence issues:

  • Nose over toes; many beginning runners have a tendency to over stride (which often causes an artificially slow cadence), keeping your nose over your toes will still allow a natural "heal touch" first, but transition the main weight contact to the mid-foot area.
  • Run on varied surfaces; initially dirt or grass if available, and then transitioning to a 50/50 mix of irregular surfaces and paved surfaces.
  • If locally available, make sure the running courses include lots of hills.
  • Long Slow Distance (LSD); I am an advocate of strict LSD for beginning runners; nothing, and I do mean NOTHING improves speed over a 5K distance for a beginning runner better than lots of LSD.
  • Once a runner has progressed beyond rank beginner, which in my book typically means a 5K in less than 30 minutes, I coach what I call a "Modified LSD" plan; basically use the LSD running methodology except for the finish.  Say a person is training for a 10K, I would have them build their mileage up to eight miles, and then gradually push the last mile, then the last two, then the last three miles up to race pace.

Using the above techniques has resulted in virtually 100% success in remediating any cadence issues while at the same time teaching the runner to subconsciously adjust their cadence to fit the conditions.

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The run app should include ability to show cadence, its simply expected from a running watch just like you would expect a solid lap feature in a stopwatch.

 

Its not a key metric, even in cycling, but somebody might want to quickly see their current cadence during a portion of a run that feels good and natural. 

 

Aria, Fitbit MobileTrack on iOS. Previous: Flex, Force, Surge, Blaze

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Hey Kenjamin,

 

Any updates on this?  It sounds like a great idea!

 

Thanks!

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Thanks for asking @BenDaShark. I have a beta out now here or just search Run Goal in the App Gallery. Would love some feedback. They unfortunately didn't put it in the Health & Fitness category. I'll try to get that fixed.  I had turned it into an app from a clockface, mainly due to how much of a pain it is to only have one clockface at a time, and let's face it, there's going to be a lot better looking clockfaces than this, that and it allowed me to expand the idea into setting a weekly running goal.

 

I've got some bugfixes I'm hoping to have done this weekend, and then it usually takes a few days to get through the review process.

 

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I agree, please add Cadence!!

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I don’t run I cycle and Fitbit continues to almost be a great product. If you can connect to a Bluetooth headset, you certainly could connect to a Bluetooth LE cadence sensor. This is why I use Fitdigits because they get multiple sports sensors. Going to do some telemetry testing today,

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Hi cwinnyk,

i saw your comment about being a running coach and I was after advice. 

Some of my issues are aging body related; I strained my Achilles in January (insertional Achilles strain left foot) and am going to slowly get back into running over this next month. I did it doing a lot of hiking over steep inclines in a short space of time. 

 

Initially i I thought getting a cadence tracking watch would be ideal to prevent overstriding however I will apply your method of nose over toes. Is there anything else I can do to prevent injury ? I am a forefoot striker, runs are 5-10km range, and I wear adidas adios boost shoes which have a 10mm stack height. Should I be foam rolling more ? And can you recommend any specific strength training exercises? My cardio is excellent but my muscle strength could be better. Tendon strains seem to be more prevalent now I’m in my mid 30s. I didn’t have these issues 5 years ago

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Any update on this?  Will you be adding cadence?

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When it it coming to ionic? I mean steps per min should not be hard....

 

/Sam

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