4 Weeks /Low results / looking for advise

[RigelB]

We all know that everyone’s body is different and we all work in mysterious ways. But I’ve always seen weight loss/ muscle gain as heath science and nothing more dynamic. If you do this: this wil happen. But the more my girlfriend and I work out the more I’ve noticed it really makes no sense to me and is more dynamic than most people give it credit for. 

I am 5’10. I weigh(at the time of this) 144.8 pounds. I am 31 years of age. A year ago I had a career change. I went from working in a large factory where I was either sprinting to get the job done or up and down several flights of stairs to check packages. I was fairly lean, not so food conscious, and didn’t have any issues. At that time, when I last checked my weight, I was 147 lbs(more muscle than fat). I’ve since become flabby and more squishy around the belly (like the ratio completely flip flopped). I believe it’s been dubbed the “dad bod”. It’s frustrating when you go out to eat with friends and you mention you’re watching your intake and they make comments about how you could use the burger and your brain shouts “rip your shirt off and show them the tire. Make sure you shake it in their face and ask them to shut their mouths” but I have to remind my brain that humans don’t act that way and they wouldn’t understand. 

I bring that up because for the past 4 weeks I’ve had a very strict diet and a very strict exercise routine. Every night when my girlfriend gets out of work we go to the gym and run for 35-60 minutes. Then we spend 15-25 minutes on one of the various leg machines just to help stretch and tone. I also have a light workout routine I do during the day, 3 days a week where I do arms, torso, or legs.

our/my diet is almost always the same. In the morning it’s 1 slice of 15 grain bread, half an avocado, 2 eggs. One cup of black coffee. Throughout the day I snack on peanuts, berries, and various fruits and veggies including pickles. Instead of a lunch, I have black coffee or a zero calorie energy drink and a Combat Power 25mg protein shake and I may snack on some fruits like an apple, peach or berries. Possible some beef jerky. For dinner it’s usually a type of meat like salmon, shrimp, chicken, beef. We always have a side of vegetables. Then we hit the gym for the 1.5 hours where I consume a bottle of water if not more when I get home.  When I get home it’s another protein shake and then we may snack before bed. I drink whole milk with my protein shake for the extra calcium and vitamins. We stay away from pasta and rice just to limit carb intake and not overdo it beyond a slice of bread and fruit. We log everything in our food tracker. 

The day is pretty consistent every day. I’ve not cheated or had junk food like candy, sugars, etc. I’ve kept way in a 1000 calorie deficit. I usually end up with an out cal of 3,000 and an In cal of 1,200-1,800. So I’m way low from my goal and I still weigh about the same. 

Im a pretty average built guy And I’ve seen the google images of what 5 pounds of fat looks like and I feel like I can easily say I’ve not seen that much come off in the 30 days I’ve started this routine. I do feel slightly thinner but for the work I’m putting into this, it doesn’t seem to match up. My starting weight was around 147 so by simple math I’ve lost maybe 2 pounds but for the past 2 weeks I’ve gone 145, 144.7, 144.8, 144.8, 144.6, 144.7, 144.6, 144.8 

i thought the rule rule was that If you exercise, eat right, and stay below your calorie intake you will lose weight. With my balanced diet, low calorie intake, sprinting uphill on a treadmill and light weight lifting routine, I was expecting the weight to just slump off. What am I missing?

[wmchapman · Accepted solution]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up @RigelB

Welcome to your 30s - challenge is beginning. Aging is a natural process, not to be feared. Your chemistry is changing and you need to adapt to it to stay lean - ask 10 people for the advice you've requested and you'll get 10 varied answers - as you said early on, we are all very different.

Building muscle, true, helps you burn more calories daily; so it would be logical, the more muscle the more you can consume daily. The gotcha is the chemistry change, as you get more senior (sorry to use the word) you'll find WHEN you consume is of more importance.

The seeds and nuts are perfect as you stretch out and begin an activity, not after.  Regular workouts "trick" the body into saving up for the next one.

I found little progress with the in/out counts of daily routine. Huge physical changes when scheduling all activities immediately after consumption. Forget what mom said about not swimming after eating - different rules for different bodies and different stages.

You've got this - nourish up before activity and surprise your body with some additional unscheduled activities. My first, of the next ten advice's 😉

Good discipline, I'm impressed.

[bikerhiker]

@RigelB

First of all, congratulations on your desire to keep fit and loose weight!!  So right now, you're 144.8lbs and 5' 10"" and you are having difficulty reducing weight.

First of all, what is your planned target weight for this weight loss and why are you doing this?  Are you doing this for health reasons due to doctor's orders or are you doing this with simply for the looks?

The reason I asked this, as my GP asked me yesterday after my physical, is that your calculated BMI is 20.8, which is pretty close to 18.5 while my BMI is above 22 and under 23.  My GP and I had a long talk (about 45min long) with him to correct some of the wrong to misinformation I got from the Fitbit forum.

The first thing he asked me was; suppose you have 2 people, one looks obese but with a normal BMI and another one looks fit, well toned but with a BMI closer to 18.5.  Which one do you think will die soon after contracting a disease?  I said; the one who is well toned and fit and there are numerous studies that support this, but I see this often in the hospital and care home I work in.  My GP said that most of the people will say, the obese person!  

Why do I start with this story?  That is because a lot of people are obsessed with the idea that weight loss is a CICO (Calories In and Calories Out = energy balance).  On paper, this is simple to understand.  But a human body is a very complex machinery of chemical and biological system.  Each human being is built differently and also may have underlying hidden diseases that are undetected currently with modern tests.  So therefore, anything like BMI, Body fat% and calories you need taken in or out depends on your body needs at the moment.  The body needs a "FUNCTIONAL RESERVE" to fight any unforeseen diseases or it even knows you are going to have to fight in the future.  For example, if a person's BMI is 23, then when he or she experiences a nasty FLU virus, the person will have to fight it.  The body weight will go down and naturally the BMI will go down.  It's not uncommon to loose about 3 BMI during the course of the disease, even a person's BMI goes from 23 to 20, that person is still safe because it is not below 18.5.  As soon as the person gets better, then the BMI will naturally rise back to its equilibrium state, which is 23.  Now take a somewhat fit and well toned individual or even someone who has an eating disorder but with a BMI of 19 to 20.  Certainly, it's still in the healthy range, but as soon as the person gets hit with a serious virulent attack and is bed ridden, his or her BMI will drop BELOW 18.5, and that's when complications begin.  Because below 18.5, you do not have any reserve left to fight the disease and the person will take longer to recover.  By that time the person will go into some sort of medical complications and die from the disease they got unrelated to obesity and NOT from the obesity disease that they are trying to prevent!!

A functional reserve is like a rainy day fund.  If you are working pay cheque to pay cheque and have some sort of rainy day fund for when you lost your job unexpectedly, then you're going to be ok because with a combined rainy day fund and severance pay you still could pay rent, food and bills until you find another job, which may take up to 6 months to a year.  But if you don't have a rainy day fund, then you get evicted or your home got foreclosed because you didn't find another job in time to restore your functional income.  The body's functional reserve acts the same way.  It stops you from loosing more weight, because it is threatening the very survival of your body's day to day function and defense.  Typically, the body weight loss will plateau when it nears the lower end of the BMI.

Another thing I see that may interfere with your fat reduction attempt around your belly is your approach to your diet.  There is a higher proportion of protein in your diet and a lack of complex high fibre carbohydrates.  Is this intentional?  The reason I comment on this is that, carbohydrate is our main source of fuel, because it is easier to convert into energy, especially those that contain a high source of fibre which helps clear out the digestive systems, bring in nutrients and minerals that help burn fat.  In my diet, I had incorporated hot cereal with steel cut oats, flax seed and organic Whey protein as my morning breakfast with dried raisins (potassium content) and Blueberries for its antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties and for lunch and dinner, I incorporated Quinoa as my carbohydrate and protein sources as opposed to White Rice.  Sometimes if Quinoa is not on sale at Amazon and is too expensive, I will substitute that with organic brown rice mixed with wild rice.

The reason carbs is important is that, certain people, like myself, do not function well without the adequate daily consumption of carbohydrates.  What happens if I restrict carbs (low carbs high protein) diet is that (and happened to me just like you are experiencing now), is my body will try to fight weight loss and conserve fat because it think I'm in famine mode because I'm not getting enough carbohydrate.  So therefore, the more I exercise, the more it will try to conserve body fat.  When I introduced high fibre high quality carbohydrates like steel cut oats, flax seeds and Quinoa, then the trend line starts falling and is falling still until I reach the functional reserve BMI.  Once I reached that, no more weight loss is necessary.  Hope this helps.

[RigelB]

Thank you for the reply! I tell people my weight and height and they think I sound very thin. I’m the odd exception that’ll throw a BMI error for being to low but all of my body fat is in my gut. I look like a grape on toothpicks and though people say “if you work out you’ll tone” but that’s just hiding the fat. My goal is to eat right and stay fit and my body will level itself out on its own but I have not seen that level shift. 

As as far as fiber and carbs go, I think I consume about 125-300 carbs a day and a chunk of that is fiber. I eat, or try to eat, 2 cups of blueberries a day. Absolutely love blueberries. If they’re not on sale I go for strawberries. Most of my fiber comes from fresh fruit and vegetables. But I don’t overload on carbs from pasta or gluten items. I’m not gluten intolerant or anything. I just know they end up making you bloat before you’re actually full and Satisfied so I eat gluten items in moderation. I say gluten items because I clump oatmeal, bread and rice in that simple category for my own logs. Hope this explains anything. 

[RigelB]

Thank you! It’s not a difficult discipline once you get it going. I never ate breakfast and I feel great now that I do. I was also worried I’d hate black coffee and at first I did but it’s grown on me and I feel light and less crappy after a cup of coffee versus a soda. The hardest part was breaking old habits. 

[bikerhiker]

What you need to check with your diet is that 

You should consume/day

1, 1500mg to 2300mg of sodium (too much will make you feel bloat)

2, 15g to 30g of sugar.  (too much of that  will be stored as fat in fat cells)

3, 4700mg of Potassium (necessary for helping you metabolize fat and your digestive system).

4, 30g of fibre 

When you say you have bulging on your tummy, how often do you have bowel movement (excrementing feces)?  Often or not so often?  Sometimes, too much sodium will make you bloat, but sometimes most likely if you don't consume a high fibre content is that your waste product will get stuck in the lower intestine and the feeling of constipation which can add to the bloat.  

Before I weight myself in the morning, I usually have at least 2 bowel movements and I had tried weighing myself before B.M and after B.M and the difference between weight can be as much a 1.3lbs!!  Crap can weight that much.  When I work in the hospital with elderly clients and when we give suppositories like Dulcolax for instance, I have seen feces as large as a hotdog bun with a hotdog in it for a fair sized male like your height and is heavier than mine!  I picked them up with gloves, assess it and the dispose them by flushing it.

Which is why it is important to ensure that your digestive system is working in tip top shape when you're loosiing weight.  Consuming higher fibre content is a problem with North Americans as most people barely reach the minimum requirement of 30g/day of fibre.

True fibre is found in bran, nuts, seeds and raw fruits and unlike fruits and vegetables can be digested and passes through the intestines undigested.  Which is why you will crap a lot when you consume high fibre food and a good healthy feces should like the shape of your intestine (long curly).

[wmchapman]

@bikerhikernutshelled the issue:

"So therefore, the more I exercise, the more it will try to conserve body fat."

Your body is preserving you (that's it's job). Stay nourished, and unpredictable as you exercise to keep it from over storing if body lap is your primary target. Fat cells never go away, they just shrink and grow, easy to grow (natural), more difficult/slow to shrink.

[Dominique]

OK, weight loss is simple (though not easy), and it’s a numbers game (calories in vs. calories out), especially if you’re young, in relatively good health and at a normal weight (so you don’t have to care about hormones, medication etc.).

Here are some suggestions:

• weigh yourself every morning
• on one day of the week, calculate the average of the last 7 weigh-ins (so you don’t have to deal with the ups and downs)
• decide at what pace you want to lose weight (e.g. between 1.0 and 1.5 pound per week)
• decide for how long you want to do this (my suggestion: 12 weeks)
• use a spreadsheet, together with graphs (see below) to store everything
• compare each weekly average with the goals you had set yourself
• make yourself accountable, somehow (my suggestion: use the Weekly Weight In topic in this forum)

Here is the graph I’ve been using (I’m just about to end a 12-week weight loss phase):

I had set myself a goal as a range: to lose between 0.25 and 0.50 kg per week, i.e. between 3 and 6 kg (6.6-13.2 lbs) in total. Turns out I will be very close to the more aggressive pace goal.

If you’re not losing as much as you expected, it’s because you ate too much, you didn’t move enough, or a combination of both. Do the comparison (weekly average vs. set goal) once a week, and act accordingly. Repeat until the predefined period is over.

Btw, I started this weightloss phase at BMI 21.3, i.e. at a relatively lean level. I’m ending it at BMI 19.3. I’m quite older than you (57), so it’s definitely not a question of age. You can see what I currently look like here. 

[bikerhiker]

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@wmchapman wrote:

@bikerhikernutshelled the issue:

"So therefore, the more I exercise, the more it will try to conserve body fat."

Your body is preserving you (that's it's job). Stay nourished, and unpredictable as you exercise to keep it from over storing if body lap is your primary target. Fat cells never go away, they just shrink and grow, easy to grow (natural), more difficult/slow to shrink.

---

That's true.

But his BMI is closer to 18.5, then the safety mechanism will kick in and will hit the weight plateau very soon.  Yes, you can keep changing your exercise routine to prevent body expenditure adaptation and force more caloric expenditure to reduce weight, but this is no longer considered healthy, because while exercising is healthy and eating healthy food is healthy, the body is no longer performing in a healthy manner, because it is being artificially suppressed and will experience wild swings in weight loss as the body mounts its own defense.  I gave my GP a few of people's trendweight charts here and he picked up the ones that show wild swings as those who have a lower BMI, look healthy and lean but as he said, studies had proven and my work I had witnessed that those people are more likely the ones that end up in a hospital with medical problems.  Which is a shock to a lot of people because they always thought those people are the most healthiest.  That's not the case.  

The ideal weight loss should look like a very nice curve down.  It should be a consistent downward trend curve with little upswing until you reach a plateau.  Going beyond the plateau is considered more for looks rather than for health reasons.

As my GP had told me; the reason I see some people with a lower BMI than usual and is exercising a lot but then he said, you will also see wild swings which aren't supposed to be there.  The wild swing upwards indicates the body wants to restore to its last BMI.  This is what the body is doing; giving people a message that it is doing that.  My GP had a long talk with me just to make sure I'm not brain- washed to go to a BMI of 19 which I was tempted to do as the trend line suggest that I could do.  

[GershonSurge]

@bikerhiker,

To my knowledge, there are only three people on Fitbit who have a BMI near 22 (center normal) who exercise a lot. I think we all agree diet is more important than exercise. Only one of us counts calories. We also make our profiles and trendweight public. None of us have wild weight swings. If our weight changes, we usually say something in advance. Two are cutting and bulking in an effort to get more muscle. One decided to go a bit below 22 for a specific reason. None of us have any medical conditions that didn't exist before we lost weight. All of us eat variations of a natural whole food diet.

The swings that cause problems are people who lose a lot of weight through excessive calorie restriction and then quickly gain all of it back. 

Anyway, @RigelB, in my opinion, this has gotten too complicated. Your stomach likely isn't as big as it appears in your mind. Perhaps, I'm wrong. If I am, it's most likely your diet. It has too much fat, too much protein and not enough vitamins and nutrients. I suggest getting rid of the protein bars. They are processed and have an unnatural combination of "foods." Replace some of your fats with starches for calories (what you call glutens) and more vegetables and fruits. 

I suggest getting a scale that shows your body fat percentage. If you freeze your weight and reduce your percentage of body fat, the stomach may eventually disappear. How do you do this? Everyone has a different idea. The three of us generally average about 20,000 steps a day, which is not excessive. I don't do much weight training. Instead, I stay active doing chores. We all burn about 3100 calories a day. We all do well-documented experiments to see what works for us.

Think in terms of months for changing your body fat percentage. In the short term, there will be unpredictable fluctuations.

[bikerhiker]

@GershonSurge

Here is an interesting discovery after I got my annual physical checkup, blood work and fecal analysis back.

Overall, everything was perfect except my blood glucose level.  It's 0.2 higher than last year, and last year I was 160lbs with a 34" waist line and this year, I am 144lbs with a 31" waist line.  Compared to my sister who has a BMI of 27 (considered obese and high risk of diabetes) is that her sugar fasting is much lower than me.  In fact, she is perfect.  She eats more white rice than me, consume kitkat and chocolate almost every week and eat more processed food and drink sugary drinks than me.  She only walks to work, but I walk 10,000/day and exercise and strength train every week.  And people say I look fit and thin with not much of a belly.  And my waist line is 31".  And yet, with all that exercise and diet monitoring, I am still classified as pre-diabetic and my BMI is 22.6.  This 22.6 should indicate a much much much lower BFS (blood sugar fasting) than my sister.  It wasn't.   I eat whole foods (very close to plant based), steel cut oats and Quinoa replacing bread and white rice.  Fish and chicken.  Even with all that, my blood sugar still goes up every year.

The message my GP was telling me is that, it doesn't matter if you're BMI is 22 or lower.  It doesn't matter if I look healthy today and got great abs.  What matters is blood work and what it tells me.  So while I am healthy and don't get sick often, I'm a candidate for Type 2 diabetes.

I think my sister laughs at me because she didn't have to try hard and yet she manages to maintain perfect blood sugar level and be able to enjoy a chocolate bar, ice cream and some processed foods and yet I am counting calories and eating whole foods and still it goes up.  I can't remember the last time I enjoyed those sugary treats.  As you can see now, life is not always fair and equal to everyone!

My GP said that my effort was not all in vain though.  If I didn't eat whole foods and exercise, my fasting blood sugar level will shoot even higher, probably I'll be diabetic by now.

[Dominique]

@bikerhiker: BMI 27 isn’t obese, but overweight (overweight is 25-30, obese is higher than 30). I seem to remember you were very overweight at some point in your adult life (before making changes to your lifestyle that brought you to your current level): if so, your being pre-diabetic was likely triggered by being overweight (combined with other lifestyle factors); my understanding is once you have reached the pre-diabetic state, you can only suppress the symptoms (by lowering your weight, being more active, improving your diet, your overall lifestyle etc.), but you remain at risk; you can’t, for instance, consume large amounts of highly refined carbohydrates and get away with it (the way someone who’s never been pre-diabetic can).

[GershonSurge]

@bikerhiker,

Blood tests are valuable, but they are an effect, not a cause. What does your doctor suggest to lower your blood sugar?

There is no such thing as close for whole food plant-based diet. The research doesn't support any amount of animal products. You eat ribs and hamburgers on the weekend. If I understand your post correctly, you eat chicken and fish. I can also see where you meant it differently, so clarify if you want.

Anyway, you completely ignored my last post and once again, changed the topic. That's a fruitless endeavor, and I won't spend time participating.

[RigelB]

All of your insight is helpful! Realy

i appreciate it! Most of the answers I’ve received are all different but they get the gears going. It was clear something was out of sync for my body.

Since I stared the post, the only thing I changed about my diet was that I reduced my Protein shakes from 2-3 a day to just 1 after lunch lunch but before dinner. My diet is so clean that my body is always hungry so I’m eating almost every 2-3 hours. I also increased my water intake and added an All Bran fiber product to a mid morning snack between breakfast and lunch. 

I am still doing cardio for an hour at the gym every night and for the past 4 mornings I’ve lost .2 pounds each day without fail. I’ve almost come to expect it to be lower by .2 each day at this rate. I I’m typically at 3,000 caps out and 1,800 calls in. 

I wonder if sugars played a roll because I bought some honey Graham’s and gummy bears from serious craving and I’ve snacked on them IN MODERATION when my belly starts grumbling and they have not affected my weight loss since this began 4 days ago. I’m not a scientist at all but I feel less weak during workouts since these few changes as well which means harder, more consistent workouts. 

[bikerhiker]

@Dominique

You are correct and that’s what I also gather from my GP.  The good news is that I’m still considered at a lower  risk of developing Type 2 diabetes as long as I maintain the diet and exercise to suppress the rise in blood sugar YOY.  And thank you very much for correcting the error on the BMI definition for my sister.

[bikerhiker]

@RigelB

Low blood sugar can certainly play a part in being hungry some of the times.  I have had those times in the distant past.  I have been experimenting with Quinoa and with portion control.  I found that if I have hi fiber breakfast with Whey after a workout and then Quinoa with steamed vegetables and lean meat keep me fuller much longer.  Quinoa is both high in fiber and in protein and cause little blood sugar spike.  But high in carbohydrates so it keeps me energized and feel alert.  I used to snack on granola bars and nuts as snacks before I introduced Quinoa into my diet.  After I incorporated Quinoa into my diet, I no longer need to snack often which helps in my weight loss.  I am still experimenting with portion control with Quinoa so I don’t take in too much unnecessary carbs.

[bikerhiker]

Quinoa for both lunch and dinner for myself.😃