Always burn more than I eat, still gain weight

[Case13]

I've read a lot of forums across more than just the FitBit site that all say "it's as simple as burning more than you eat."  Well, I do.  I probably eat excessively one to two days per week but even then, I usually eat what I burn where all the other days I maintain a 100-700 calorie deficiency.  

In December, I had some medical issues in play where I couldn't eat enough to not lose weight.  Then suddenly, in the last week of January (so not over holidays or anything), my weight shot up by 16 pounds and has been moving up and down in an 8 pound range since then but never back down to where I was consistently from August to January.

You might think it is a new medicine I am on, but I have had this problem for years whenever I'm not on a medication that causes weight loss.  You might think it is a thyroid issues, but apparently my standard thyroid test comes out perfect (although that doesn't mean the more in-depth test would).

Any ideas?  It's incredibly depressing.

[EricD]

I totally agree with Mary. I have always lost muscle mass while trying to cut calories. This goes back to my point. It's what you eat, not the calories (to a point) that are really important. It just kills me to see people go on these crazy diet plans to lose weight. Just eat healthy, moderate portions. For most of us, it's really that simple.

[Heybales]

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@Aquatics23 wrote:
Yes you have me pretty much nailed. I do usually eat 1500, but have eaten 300-500 more as I thought i should still lose weight... Just not as fast.

I currently do 3 hiit workouts a week. In addition I am working with a trainer two days a week with a strength focus. I hit 10-15,000 steps 5 days a week. The minute I relax, eating/exercise... Immediate weight gain. I also fluctuate about 4 lbs.

The only time I have been able to really drop weight vs. maintain/ gain, is when I did a whole 30. I prefer not restricting too much, even though I do feel better the cleaner I eat.
I was told by my trainer to go back to clean eating and eat 1600... Due to my current exercise routine. But I worry about not losing or even gaining.

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Do you realize that immediate weight gain can only be water?

What is immediate, how many days and how much weight?

Did you know that if you ate 250 calories over your maintenance daily for 2 whole weeks - you would gain 1 lb.

And if lifting - not even all fat.

When you finally eat more - you are merely topping off glycogen stores that have been at some level of depleted, that's all. Just proves you are not at maintenance actually.

Keep up the stress of this, and you won't lose, pretty sure of that, unless you feel like cutting calories drastically and probably failing trying to adhere to a low calorie level, besides making maintenance a real sucking point.

Did you read the post about the study and what you can do to your body? You don't have to do that to lose weight. That's not a great life, bad relationship with food and your body, always worred about how much you must eat, not getting the max out of your exercise (you aren't), ect.

[MPHMSN]

@Case13 wrote:
Ty! I am having some heart issues and water retention is on the radar. After an echocardiogram, it was found that I had enough fluid in my lower aorta that my doc couldn't fathom how I didn't just drink 2 liters of water. For me, increased water intake doesn't flush it out or help me lose anything which may indicate a bigger problem that has to do with whether or not my kidneys are processing sodium. But all that aside, water retention is generally an extra 10 or so pounds and not compounding weight gain. It seems, no matter what I do or any time I have been on a diet at all that this happens. Ironically, if I stop tracking everything and just eat at-will, I maintain weight and don't gain. Explain that! I truly don't get it.

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I haven't read every post...but here's what I've learned in my studies.

You'll want to talk to a nutritionist specializing in cardiac issues.  Cardiac & renal issues are related as the kidneys filter fluid, but if the blood doesn't get to them; there's no way to filter.  This also contributes to water retention.

You might want to play around with your calories, with MD/RD approval.  You may not be eating enough calories for the amount that you burn in combination with your medication and health, so the overestimation may not be working in your benefit.  I've been in this boat before.  When I found the perfect combination of meals & snacks for my weight and activity, I dropped the weight. When I eat too little, my body goes into "starvation mode" and holds on to every calorie that it gets a hold of, no matter how much I would exercise.  

Also, have you had lab work up to evaluate your fluid & electrolyte balance?  Probably have with heart issues.  This would also play into water retention and weight gain.  There is so much that plays in to weight loss and maintenance when medical concerns also come into play.  Because of this, I highly recommend seeking out professional advice from somebody that can work with you individually, get to know you and what exactly you seek and need.

Good luck!

[SueHow]

You are probably eating far to many starchy veg, try cutting out all veggies that are high in starch such as potato, corn, peas etc along with bread, pasta and rice, it makes a huge difference. Good luck.

[GrapeJelly]

I've been exercising on cardio for 5 days a week, working, and going to school and trying to eat healthy and haven't lost any weight. I kept a log of my food and activities and got fed up and went to a nutritionist and talked to her about everything, she just glanced at my what I was eating and said sodium. Way too much salt. All of the low calories foods, usually frozen, and granolla bars have a lot of sodium so she said drink more water and start a low sodium diet. It was about a week ago, and that isn't enough time, and I haven't weighed myself yet, so I don't know if she was right or what. 

I guess I'll let you know in a week or two. 

[TandemWalker]

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@EricD wrote:

I totally agree with Mary. I have always lost muscle mass while trying to cut calories. This goes back to my point. It's what you eat, not the calories (to a point) that are really important. It just kills me to see people go on these crazy diet plans to lose weight. Just eat healthy, moderate portions. For most of us, it's really that simple.

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I agree with your earlier post, but not sure I'm with you on this one. If you lost muscle mass while trying to cut calories, could it be that you're attempty at cutting calories resulted in a diet not rich enough in protein or timing of your protein intake?

[TandemWalker]

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@GrapeJelly wrote:

I've been exercising on cardio for 5 days a week, working, and going to school and trying to eat healthy and haven't lost any weight. I kept a log of my food and activities and got fed up and went to a nutritionist and talked to her about everything, she just glanced at my what I was eating and said sodium. Way too much salt. All of the low calories foods, usually frozen, and granolla bars have a lot of sodium so she said drink more water and start a low sodium diet. It was about a week ago, and that isn't enough time, and I haven't weighed myself yet, so I don't know if she was right or what. 

I guess I'll let you know in a week or two. 

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I think your nutritionist gave you very sound advice indeed. Sodium is a real killer, and I mean that literally; and I can't say enough about water. Yes, you'll have to visit the washroom often and better be careful to time your intak properly so that you're not stuck somewhere with no washroom facilities available. But water, water, water, and then more water, will do magic for your weight loss.

[TandemWalker]

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@SueHow wrote:
You are probably eating far to many starchy veg, try cutting out all veggies that are high in starch such as potato, corn, peas etc along with bread, pasta and rice, it makes a huge difference. Good luck.

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Couldn't agree more! If you're going to eat pasta/rice/bread, just time it a half hour or so before your most intense workout of the day - because that's first thing your body will burn. If you eat those foods for your last meal and stay inactive afterwards, most of it will turn into sugar and fat!

[Heybales]

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@TandemWalker wrote:

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@SueHow wrote:
You are probably eating far to many starchy veg, try cutting out all veggies that are high in starch such as potato, corn, peas etc along with bread, pasta and rice, it makes a huge difference. Good luck.

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Couldn't agree more! If you're going to eat pasta/rice/bread, just time it a half hour or so before your most intense workout of the day - because that's first thing your body will burn. If you eat those foods for your last meal and stay inactive afterwards, most of it will turn into sugar and fat!

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Well, in reality all those foods mentioned are carbs and will turn in to blood sugar to be stored or used. The question is where and how.

And then as you said used for immediate energy needs - but also for topping off any muscle glycogen stores.

And in a diet, those stores are always depleted to some level below full, hence the big water weight drop when starting a diet (which includes sodium drop too of course) and big water weight gain when going off the diet or eating more carbs for 1 day (which of course may include more sodium too).

But if you don't eat prior to that really intense carb burning workout you suggest, you will use those muscle stores, and then your next meal will just top them off, and that next meal could be a big dinner with no activity afterwards, so no problem with surplus carbs at all.

Because the insulin has them sent to liver and muscle glycogen stores, and there is no extra.

[Heybales]

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@GrapeJelly wrote:

I've been exercising on cardio for 5 days a week, working, and going to school and trying to eat healthy and haven't lost any weight. I kept a log of my food and activities and got fed up and went to a nutritionist and talked to her about everything, she just glanced at my what I was eating and said sodium. Way too much salt. All of the low calories foods, usually frozen, and granolla bars have a lot of sodium so she said drink more water and start a low sodium diet. It was about a week ago, and that isn't enough time, and I haven't weighed myself yet, so I don't know if she was right or what. 

I guess I'll let you know in a week or two. 

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Did you just start that cardio 5 x weekly, compared to what level prior to trying to lose weight?

If you just started, you are asking your muscles to endure longer than they normally would be used for - so body stores more glycogen, along with attached water. While going in a diet you do lose some of those stores, your exerise is asking for more of them.

Don't be shocked if you have a bigger meal day or higher carb meal and gain some water weight from storing more carbs.

Cardio also asks for more blood volume, both for cooling and increased use to the muscle being used.

And indeed if new workouts, retained water in muscle merely for repair.

You giving your body a break, is that different muscles being used in the cardio?

Exercise if done right tears the body down.

Rest for recovery and repair allows it to be built back up, stronger if diet allows.

And in a diet recovery is impaired.

So hope that isn't 5 days in a row intense with exact same muscles. You won't be getting the progress and benefit you could be getting.

At least increases in water weight related to more stored carbs will max out, as will blood volume, and even sodium too maxes out, doesn't keep increasing.

You logging your foods accurately - by weight? Calories is per gram, not volume. So measuring should only be for liquids, not foods.

Weigh everything, to at least see how inaccurate food packaging is, food labels (how far off "about 2 servings" can be), ect for at least 2 weeks, but probably longer on some foods.

[TandemWalker]

@Heybales- "...And in a diet recovery is impaired." Not if the diet is specific to one's needs. A properly balanced diet, prepared by a nutritioninst to match one's profile, should never impair either performance or recovery but rather improve both IMHO.

[GrapeJelly]

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@Heybales wrote:

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@GrapeJelly wrote:

I've been exercising on cardio for 5 days a week, working, and going to school and trying to eat healthy and haven't lost any weight. I kept a log of my food and activities and got fed up and went to a nutritionist and talked to her about everything, she just glanced at my what I was eating and said sodium. Way too much salt. All of the low calories foods, usually frozen, and granolla bars have a lot of sodium so she said drink more water and start a low sodium diet. It was about a week ago, and that isn't enough time, and I haven't weighed myself yet, so I don't know if she was right or what. 

I guess I'll let you know in a week or two. 

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Did you just start that cardio 5 x weekly, compared to what level prior to trying to lose weight?

If you just started, you are asking your muscles to endure longer than they normally would be used for - so body stores more glycogen, along with attached water. While going in a diet you do lose some of those stores, your exerise is asking for more of them.

Don't be shocked if you have a bigger meal day or higher carb meal and gain some water weight from storing more carbs.

Cardio also asks for more blood volume, both for cooling and increased use to the muscle being used.

And indeed if new workouts, retained water in muscle merely for repair.

You giving your body a break, is that different muscles being used in the cardio?

Exercise if done right tears the body down.

Rest for recovery and repair allows it to be built back up, stronger if diet allows.

And in a diet recovery is impaired.

So hope that isn't 5 days in a row intense with exact same muscles. You won't be getting the progress and benefit you could be getting.

At least increases in water weight related to more stored carbs will max out, as will blood volume, and even sodium too maxes out, doesn't keep increasing.

You logging your foods accurately - by weight? Calories is per gram, not volume. So measuring should only be for liquids, not foods.

Weigh everything, to at least see how inaccurate food packaging is, food labels (how far off "about 2 servings" can be), ect for at least 2 weeks, but probably longer on some foods.

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The cardio I had been doing for about two months now, elliptical, running, different intensities, different speeds, while going to school/working. It was about a month after that I went to the nutritionist and talked to her. When I showed her what I was eating, it wasn't by volume or weight, just showed the type of foods I was eating. What I had per meal every day for a month. She gave me a little food pyramid/plate digram to show how much I should be eating of what. Since I've been using fitbit, I have been logging my food very accurately and am noticing that almost everything I put in has a ridiculously high sodium content.

I also asked her about weight lifting and gainning muscle mass and she said I should do it one or two days a week, but my current weight gain and lack of weight loss, wasn't a result of it.  

Again I don't know if she is right or not, to me it sounds way off, that all that weight gain, or lack of weight loss could be just salt, but I'm going to try for a few weeks and see. She did say that there was a type of machine that can measure water retention and musscle mass by producing an electrical shock through you system, and that most gyms have one, but after doing some research I read that a lot of those machines just take your age, weight, height and put in what your water weight should be, that it's not accurate to the specific person. 

The one thing she didn't mention, I forgot to ask, is that I do need some sugar/carbs to give myself energy. I was eating mostly veggies/grains/meats and almost no breads, or starches. After exercising really hard for a couple days I started to notice I was getting headaches, and realised it was from low blood sugar and that I needed to keep carbs and sugar in my system. 

[Heybales]

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@TandemWalker wrote:

@Heybales- "...And in a diet recovery is impaired." Not if the diet is specific to one's needs. A properly balanced diet, prepared by a nutritioninst to match one's profile, should never impair either performance or recovery but rather improve both IMHO.

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Well, I meant diet as in eating to lose weight.

If you are eating less than maintenance, there is no way around the fact you will be impacted to some degree depending on amount of deficit, compared to eating at maintenance.

Sure you can still make progress and improvement, just not as much as if you were eating at maintenance.

And that's because recovery is impaired, the body is short what it would like for energy needs, something is going to suffer.

I could see a good diet plan being better than a crappy one, but I'm comparing the good one in a weight loss diet to the good one at maintenance.

Much like lifting, mess with the diet all you like, except for some small newbie gains if there is enough fat to lose, you aren't going to be adding new muscle mass while in a deficit no matter what you eat.

And since so much of performance improvement has to do with adding new muscle once existing is tapped out (except for truly just plain old endurance increases in aerobic cardio), just not going to happen in a weight loss diet.

[Heybales]

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@GrapeJelly wrote:

The cardio I had been doing for about two months now, elliptical, running, different intensities, different speeds, while going to school/working. It was about a month after that I went to the nutritionist and talked to her. When I showed her what I was eating, it wasn't by volume or weight, just showed the type of foods I was eating. What I had per meal every day for a month. She gave me a little food pyramid/plate digram to show how much I should be eating of what. Since I've been using fitbit, I have been logging my food very accurately and am noticing that almost everything I put in has a ridiculously high sodium content.

I also asked her about weight lifting and gainning muscle mass and she said I should do it one or two days a week, but my current weight gain and lack of weight loss, wasn't a result of it.  

Again I don't know if she is right or not, to me it sounds way off, that all that weight gain, or lack of weight loss could be just salt, but I'm going to try for a few weeks and see. She did say that there was a type of machine that can measure water retention and musscle mass by producing an electrical shock through you system, and that most gyms have one, but after doing some research I read that a lot of those machines just take your age, weight, height and put in what your water weight should be, that it's not accurate to the specific person. 

The one thing she didn't mention, I forgot to ask, is that I do need some sugar/carbs to give myself energy. I was eating mostly veggies/grains/meats and almost no breads, or starches. After exercising really hard for a couple days I started to notice I was getting headaches, and realised it was from low blood sugar and that I needed to keep carbs and sugar in my system. 

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Doesn't mean you need fast acting carbs, just more of them in the diet, and at the right time.

A well planned snack can take care of that prior to workout, as well as higher carb meal afterwards.

Yes, I'd skip the BIA unless it's free, but realize the BF% estimate is only upwards of 5% accurate depending on your state mostly. Now for comparing to you later, especially if free or cheap, might be useful if you are outside the norms.

Just like valid weigh-in day, you should only do it morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout. Otherwise you'll throw off the water estimates.

True, current state of stall is not related to gaining muscle mass, can't gain that fast even if you wanted to. But it can easily be related to starting a new program which causes muscle to retain water for repair.

Hence the need for valid weigh-in days. Which over a month still would not hide fat loss in inches or weight.

Love the personalized attention she gave you with the old food pyramid and newer food plate stuff. Good grief, talk about focused on you and your workout specifics.

And you are right, that cardio has been done long enough, no effects as I was thinking would remain from that. But, is it getting warming when doing workouts, because increased blood volume for cooling can still happen, and increased for better fitness.

Do suggest you alternate days if you mainly like doing the cardio. Easy one day, really hard the other, you decide which one is hard. And the hard day can be harder exactly because of the easy day. But hard after hard slowly starts becoming not so hard overall. Feels the same to you though, but not in the performance.

Hard day could be some intense incline intervals, or straight out intervals, like 30 sec to 90 sec hard/ rest ratio. Or just really hard workout over all. Then easy day is keeping HR in the fat-burning zone, which prior to the fad naming was actually called the Active Recovery HR zone for exactly what the name says.

[TandemWalker]

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@Heybales wrote:

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@TandemWalker wrote:

@Heybales- "...And in a diet recovery is impaired." Not if the diet is specific to one's needs. A properly balanced diet, prepared by a nutritioninst to match one's profile, should never impair either performance or recovery but rather improve both IMHO.

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Well, I meant diet as in eating to lose weight.

If you are eating less than maintenance, there is no way around the fact you will be impacted to some degree depending on amount of deficit, compared to eating at maintenance.

Sure you can still make progress and improvement, just not as much as if you were eating at maintenance.

And that's because recovery is impaired, the body is short what it would like for energy needs, something is going to suffer.

I could see a good diet plan being better than a crappy one, but I'm comparing the good one in a weight loss diet to the good one at maintenance.

Much like lifting, mess with the diet all you like, except for some small newbie gains if there is enough fat to lose, you aren't going to be adding new muscle mass while in a deficit no matter what you eat.

And since so much of performance improvement has to do with adding new muscle once existing is tapped out (except for truly just plain old endurance increases in aerobic cardio), just not going to happen in a weight loss diet.

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I understand and you make some very valid points. I'm no pro at this and your knowledge base is evidently broader than mine. But if I relate this to my own experience over the last 18 months or so, I lost 44 pounds and I am still on a weight loss mission, with another 8 pounds or so to lose. I went from 213 lb to 169; and lost 9-10 inches around the waist. All along, I did some stregthening, not body building training, but strengthening, using my own body weight and bands. Not only did I shed the pounds, but I also toned up a lot, I did gain muscle mass. To me, dieting (i.e., what you eat and when you eat) is just as important as your exercise regimen; and I know that I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for my good nutritionist helping me along the way. That being said, I tend to agree with you -- if one is on a deficit and at the same wants to body-build, that would be a bit of a challenge, as the body would soon run out of fuel. Notwithstanding, one can still achieve weight loss and at the same gain muscle mass, even at 65!

[MYNEWCATZ]

You are not alone, and no you are NOT crazy! The same thing was happening to me. I too had been check and cleared for hormone issues a few years back. But I was (and am) eating 1,000 calories less than my burn totals. I started taking a few herbal items and my weight is now starting to budge. But I also have the same thing happen, if I follow plan I'd gain but if I'd just eat whatever, I'd stay the same or even lose sometimes. It's maddening! PS. Have you been checked out for fibroids? Could be a hormone related issue as I now am suspecting mine was/is. Message me if you want to know what I am doing specifically. Good luck!

[StefK]

Tandem walker, there is ton of research out there proofing that you can not GAIN muscle while in a deficit. What very likely happened in your case is that by loosing weight you expose your existing muscles that were hidden under a layer of fat.

To build muscle you need to bulk up, which means eating over your TDEE.
Stef.

[GrapeJelly]

So if you're exercising and in a calorie deficit are you burning fat or muscle?

And I also thought it was a good idea to try and loose weight and strength train at the same time. To rotate on certain days of the week. When I mean deficit what I mean is at the end of the day, including meals and exercise. 

I.E. I'm at 2000 calories that is supposedly what I burn without doing anything. So I'll eat 2000 Calories(Of Healthy Food) and then cardio for an hour(-700 Calories)

So now I'm at 1300 calories before I go to bed. A deficit of  -700 calories.

Is that not right?

On days that I am strength trainning should I eat 2000 calories, 2500, 1500? 

[Heybales]

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@GrapeJelly wrote:

So if you're exercising and in a calorie deficit are you burning fat or muscle?

And I also thought it was a good idea to try and loose weight and strength train at the same time. To rotate on certain days of the week. When I mean deficit what I mean is at the end of the day, including meals and exercise. 

I.E. I'm at 2000 calories that is supposedly what I burn without doing anything. So I'll eat 2000 Calories(Of Healthy Food) and then cardio for an hour(-700 Calories)

So now I'm at 1300 calories before I go to bed. A deficit of  -700 calories.

Is that not right?

On days that I am strength trainning should I eat 2000 calories, 2500, 1500? 

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Depends on how big a deficit and what kind of exercise.

Resistance training is the only exercise shown in studies to help retain muscle mass, with healthy people even a steeper deficit than would otherwise be taken.

But you can make such an unreasonable deficit even with that and eating enough protein, that some muscle somewhere will be lost. Least used first gone when there are limited resources to provide, ie eating too little.

So a 25% deficit you create (burn 2700, eat 2000) might be reasonable with over 80 lbs to lose.

700 cal / hr - not at all difficult with right weight and/or fitness level - but what are you doing to burn that much and what is estimating that burn amount?

Could actually be burning more, which could be bad, or less, which wouldn't matter then.

Strength training burns less during the workout, but bigger % later during repair/recovery. So you can follow same method there, eat your normal non-exercise maintenance amount, let exercise create the deficit.

Good plan, just may need to tweek it. Like if you have two days in a row of intense workouts, may need to eat more post workout on the intense burn day, so the next day can be equally intense.

[Jillo]

I disagree with that statement because I have been doing just that and hardly lost anything...I'm killing myself...what about the fact that when you don't eat enough your body goes into starvation mode and slows the metabolism ? Some days my fitbit tells me I only have 870 calories for the day...