Fat Burning Plan Help

[ActiveMommy]

Hi everyone! I'm focused on fat burning (vs weight loss). I really want to drop from about 25% body fat to 20%. (My real goal is 18% but i'm taking it one step at a time - sort of).

Any way... I've been reading a ton about nutrition and trying to make sense of which foods are good fats, which are simple vs complex carbs, which truly count as proteins etc.

I've also read a lot about how to time what you eat and how much you eat. So ... for example, that you should eat simple carbs within 30 minutes of your workout etc.

I can't seem to find a really good all-inclusive guide though. I've tried ot piece it together myself but it's taking forever! 

I really wish i had something along the linese of - here are your 6-8 meals, here is how many calories and what percent macronutrients per meal, and here are some examples etc. And more so... here's what to do on a rest day vs workout day etc. 

Do any of you know of something like that that I could reference to put a really good fat burning meal plan together?

Thanks!

[JamieS_Wisco]

I don't have anything off hand but I plan on keeping up with this thread as I am having the same issue.  I don't necessarily mind where my weight is at... I just really want to see my fat to lean ratio drop... a lot.  I am sitting somewhere in lines of 30% but would like to see it closer to 25%-20%.    Excellent question!  I'll be excited to see what comes of it!

[JohnRi]

Strickly speaking, a 25% fat is right on the bottom of the average range, 20% is in the middle of the fitness range, and 18% is in the middle to of the althlete range.

So it's going to take a heck of a lot of cardio to drop it that low.  Based on my lean body mass, for me to get to the 175, which is the top of normal range for me, I'm going to have to get my fat% into the 15% range.  That's a 10% drop for me at this point.  It's going to take a ton of work to do it. 

I personally am not watching too carefully with my diet.  Still running Protein 20%, Fat 25%, and the rest carbs.  Same diet I've been doing for the last 10 1/2 months, and probably the same diet I plan to run for the rest of my life.  I'm down 71 lbs so far.  So it's working for me...  Fat % down from around 45+% to 25%.

[Dominique]

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@ActiveMommy wrote:

I've also read a lot about how to time what you eat

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Quick answer about this one: nutrient timing only plays a minor role in weight/fat loss (same with number of meals per day). Calories still rule.

Have a reasonable deficit. Eat enough protein. Engage in some kind of resistance training. Get enough sleep/reduce stress. That would be my recipe for fat loss. At least it’s the one I’m trying to follow.  

[KendraMN]

You will run into all kinds of different information.  Some good...Some Bad.

I like to refer to Lyle Mcdonald books and his website.  http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

Another one I like is Alan Aragon.

I do eat a lot of protein to help preserve lean mass while losing fat.  I too would like to get down to about 20 to 23% body-fat.  Our female bodies *likes* to hold on to our extra cushion.  😕

[Ukase]

Well, I think all of you that are following this thread are really in for it. It's Friday night, it's raining and since I'm not drinking alcohol anymore - well - here I am, trying to answer your questions, as if I was someone qualified to do so. 

There's a vast amount of information about losing fat, as opposed to weight. And - the biggest mystery are the specifics of dieting, as we are all unique. One may be able to eat certain foods with no problems, while someone else might have an issue with it. And, I'm not talking about an allergy - but a calorie. I heard a podcast -- Ben Greenfield - https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/2015/05/genetic-testing-for-exercise-and-nutrition/ and I just learned a whole lot more about what I don't know - if that makes any sense. 

Unfortunately, listening to this podcast won't answer your specific questions. Some of us are ectomorphs, some are ecto-mesomorphs, some are endomorphs, etc. We're all going to respond slightly differently to different foods. However, let's break things down. 

Timing of meals has a bit of controversy about it. Some say 5-6 smaller meals, some say it doesn't matter. 

Consider the vegan. I'm not an expert in veggies. Even searching the internet, I can't seem to find another veggie to eat with broccoli that will complete the protein. Can't find something to go with squash either. I know the info is out there - but I can't find it. Regardless - I know that a vegan doesn't eat 15 different types of veggies at each meal. They'll tend to eat different ones at different meals - and our bodies can hold those nutrients a while so it can complete those proteins. At least - that's what the podcast said. 

How much protein can I absorb in a 44 ounce smoothie? How slowly must I drink it to use all of it? I'm a big guy - at least - I feel like I'm a big guy. Can I absorb more protein than some pixie that weighs 105? I'd hope so. So - obviously, different people of different sizes are going to have different diets with differing degrees of effectiveness. 

First - I say, calculate how many calories you can eat in a day. 

Then - go here: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/macro-math-3-keys-to-dialing-in-your-macro-ratios.html

Once you choose your goal - the OP chose the one on the right - 40-50% protein, 30-40% fat, 10-30% carbs. You should also read the article there, too. 

The hardest part is figuring out the math of it all. Planning the diet to meet those macros - even with the wide range - it's tough! 

I mean - 30-40% fat -- Fat has 9 calories per gram - so if you're at an 1800 calories for maintenance - and 1550 for weight loss (250 calorie deduction for you math wizards!) then, you've got to ask yourselves, where do I find 465 - 620 calories of healthy fats? And how do I break them up over 3 meals, or 6 meals? How many meals!? 5? 8? Mark my words, years from now, they'll fuss at us for eating so many small meals because our digestive systems are getting worn out from all the use of these frequent meals! But, don't panic - they haven't said that yet. 

I'd say have at least 3, but no more than 6 meals, with the larger caloric intake being earlier in the day, as opposed to later in the day. 

Where will you get them? Olive oil? Avocado? Bacon? Yes, yes and NO! You don't wan't bacon fat! Look what happened to the pig! It smells fantastic and in a famine, it's probably the best food source ever - but we're not here because we're starving...much. Don't forget Almonds. For some reason, even though the labels look like a similar nutritional profile, "They" frown on peanuts, but love Almonds. 

The bad news is - it doesn't take too many almonds to equal about 500 calories. 

Serving Size

Calories

Carbs

Fat

1 almond

7

0.24g

0.61g

So, if we want about 500 calories worth of fat - we have more math! Now for me, it's easier to convert that 500 calories to grams. Since they're fat grams, I divide 9 into the 500 = 55.5

To be real precise, since they gave us a range - 465 - 620 calories, I'll divide both ends of the range by 9. 

51.7 grams to 68.9 grams

Hmm..

.61 grams fat per almond (note the decimal in front) per almond. If I eat 100 almonds - that's 61 grams of fat - presumably healthy fats. It's not the middle of the range, but it would work. Maybe. 

That's 700 calories though - I guess we could have 25 almonds at 4 different times of the day. 

Mind you - if you are able to eat more - you've got to do more math and figure that out for yourself. 

Now, you just do the same thing with carbs and protein. Except the proteins and carbs are 4 calories per gram instead of 9. 

And - it can get tricky - particularly with foods that combine to make a complete protein - like brown rice and black beans. If memory serves, about 1 cup of black beans will combine with slightly less than 1 cup of brown rice (cooked) to make the most complete proteins with as little "wasted" incomplete proteins. Tricky because when you measure their caloric value - do you measure them as proteins or carbs? Hey - do what you want. I can't tell you. I count them as proteins because I know they combine to make proteins. If I knew more, I'd share more. Maybe your search-fu is better than mine. (Search-fu is that lost art of using a search engine like a boss, in case you didn't know) 

I did find this: these pairings supposedly make a complete protein. Wonder what broccoli is - it's not a legume, grain or dairy, or a nut or a seed....at least, not that I know of...

Grains... with Dairy Nuts/Seeds... with Dairy Nuts/Seeds... with Legumes Dairy... with Nuts/Seeds & Legumes

Legumes... with Nuts Legumes... with Grains Legumes... with Seeds Legumes... with Dairy

whew. That's a lot of information. Darn rain is keeping me inside. But, I got my steps in, so there's that. 

Hopefully it makes sense, or at least sheds some light on how to plan your meals. It's a lot of work - so much so, that I once ate the same meals every day for a week. 

Try this app - I have not tried it - but it looks like it would work: 

https://www.eatthismuch.com/

[ActiveMommy]

Ukase

That's amazing information!! Thank you. I have found it do hard to get my macronutrient percentage tight. This helps!!

Any good sites for learning more about complete proteins?

Thank you!!

[FitBeforeFifty]

The world of fitness and weight loss is full of so many myths that it's hard to determine what's real and what's urban legend. 

I don't listen to any pod cast, fitness magazine or minimum wage personal trainer unless they can substantiate their claims.

When someone proposes a theory, I research the topic by searching studies published on NIH and other sources and then come to my own conclusions.

There is no evidence that there is any meaningful difference in fat loss based on macronutrients when you control for calories eaten.

For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763382/

Method:

"We randomly assigned 811 overweight adults to one of four diets; the targeted percentages of energy derived from fat, protein, and carbohydrates in the four diets were 20, 15, and 65%; 20, 25, and 55%; 40, 15, and 45%; and 40, 25, and 35%."

Conclusion:

"Reduced-calorie diets result in clinically meaningful weight loss regardless of which macronutrients they emphasize."

[FitBeforeFifty]

So, given macro-nutrient micro-management is mostly a waste of time, here's a much simpler way to lose fat:

Here's my simple plan:

1. Eat 3 meals per day and favor whole foods instead of processed foods.
2. Eat some protein, vegetables and healthy fats in every meal.
3. Include some carbs from whole food sources (corn, potatoes, fruits, some rice, a little pasta) in your meals as needed or as you like.
4. Stay or get active
5. Eat fewer calories than you burn

[x_Toots_x]

I know less than nothing about specifics but from the very educational resource of the 'Blade Trinity' commentary I do know that Ryan Reynolds and Jessica Biel ate an awful lot of chicken breast to get down to their ripped forms.

Because every body is different I would suggest seeing a dietician and may be even a personal trainer in your area. These can be expensive but even one session with each could be beneficial.

[Dominique]

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@x_Toots_x wrote:

Ryan Reynolds and Jessica Biel ate an awful lot of chicken breast to get down to their ripped forms.

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Merely eating chicken breast (= lean protein) won’t be enough to get ripped. If it were that simple, everybody (except vegetarians) would be ripped.

[Dominique]

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@KendraMN wrote:

I like to refer to Lyle Mcdonald books and his website.  http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

Another one I like is Alan Aragon.

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Agreed, both are well-regarded people in the field of nutrition, and have been around for a long time. I’ve read McDonald’s Guide to Flexible Dieting and I liked it.

[GershonSurge]

This is going to be a long answer. I'll put the information in order of importance in case you get bored reading. 

The first step is finding an authority on eating. The second step is finding someone who has followed that authority and been successful in meeting similar goals. Oh, and it helps if your experts are old. It helps if the information is free or near free.

Starting with eating, I bet my life on Dr. McDougall's way of eating. It has no animal products, and no added oils like olive oil, etc. The fat you eat is the fat you wear. When at your target weight, you can add a serving (about 28 grams) a day of nuts or avocado to increase calories. 

Dr. McDougall has been saying the same things since the early 80's. He is now 69, fit looking and healthy. He is an avid windsurfer. You may recognize some names that teach a similar diet. Furhman, Ornish, Esselstyne, Jack Lalanne, Ken Cooper, Cambell, Pritikin. Some of these recommend a small amount of animal products because some people won't do without them.

You can learn all you need to know from these twelve videos. If you prefer a comprehensive listing of research sources, I recommend his book, "The Starch Solution."

Since you asked for an easy book on recipes, I recommend his coloring book for those getting started. After you watch the videos or read his book, you can get the coloring book for free here.

You can stop worrying about protein for people who don't eat animal products. It would be virtually impossible for a nutritionist to design a reasonable diet that didn't have enough in the right combinations. Protein deficiencies only occur in those who are starving.  Healthy muscle growth comes from hard work, not hard eating. 

You can also stop worrying about timing of meals vs. exercise. You can do whatever feels good and it won't matter much. With this way of eating, your body will always have plenty of reserve unless you feel very hungry. 

How many meals you eat a day doesn't matter. I prefer about six. Others prefer three or less.

After three years, a person following this way if eating needs a B-12 supplement once a week. Nature's way of giving us B-12 is to inhale small particals of animal **ahem** while we are around them.

Important Note: Unlike many other diets for the purpose of losing weight, this one is healthy and sustainable for life. 

Why should you listen to me?

I've recently done what you are planning. With a few exceptions numbering less than about five during the past two months, I've stuck completely to the McDougall way of eating. My exceptions were always a slice of cheese pizza. In his videos, even Dr. McDougall says a person can occasionally eat food not on the plan.

About me: I'm a 63 year old male, 6'0'' tall. Except for a couple minor injuries, I have no health problems. Up until recently, I was old man running about 6.8 miles a day. Due to a strained muscle in my back, I stopped running and walking on June 9th.  Shortly after, I transitioned to jumping rope for some cardio. Then around June 27th, I pulled an achilles tendon, and I've had to severely limit my exercise. This is why my profile looks like I'm inactive. I do lift weights every day. The good news in all this is it showed Dr. McDougall's way of eating works from an activity level of 4,000 calories a day to about 2,500 calories a day. 

The following information comes from www.trendweight.com. The weights and percentages come from my Aria scale. I suspect the fat percentage is about two per cent low, but the numbers are consistent. You will know when you get to your goal by how you look.

Results:

Starting date: May 15th, 2016

Ending date: July 16th, 2016

Starting weight: 191.3 lbs

Ending weight: 170.8 lbs

Starting fat percentage: 27.2%

Ending fat percentage: 14.5%

Starting fat mass: 52.0 lbs

Ending fat mass: 24.8 lbs

Starting lean mass: 139.3 lbs

Ending lean mass: 146.0 lbs

(Note: Lean mass is not the same as muscle mass. Muscle mass is about 45% of lean mass.)

Here are the charts if you care to review them:

[A_Lurker]

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@GershonSurge wrote:

Starting with eating, I bet my life on Dr. McDougall's way of eating. It has no animal products, and no added oils like olive oil, etc. The fat you eat is the fat you wear. When at your target weight, you can add a serving (about 28 grams) a day of nuts or avocado to increase calories. 

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When I first lost weight I was 407 pounds, knew my eating habits sucked, and wanted the biggest bang for my dieting.  I didn't track calories, steps, etc. and although I can't find my weight loss logs from that time I basically went low-fat vegetarian.  I used to joke 'no meat, no fat, no sugar'.  I lost weight, quite quickly, but after a few months I would collect and throw out hair every time I combed my hair after washing it. Also, for me it wasn't maintainable.  Although, before I started, I occasionally would have made a vegetarian meal on my own, I dreamed of meat.  

There are so many people out there who have rational, probably valid, explanations for how we should eat, what is the best way to eat, etc.  I suspect we could all point to people with lots of education who have spent tons of time and resources studying the problem.*  If it sounds like something you can maintain forever, then that is the plan people should follow.  If you think that you will follow it for just the time you need to lose weight then look for something else.

* If there was one solution that worked for everyone we would look like a completely different society.

[A_Lurker]

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@KendraMN wrote:

You will run into all kinds of different information.  Some good...Some Bad.

I like to refer to Lyle Mcdonald books and his website.  http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

Another one I like is Alan Aragon.

I do eat a lot of protein to help preserve lean mass while losing fat.  I too would like to get down to about 20 to 23% body-fat.  Our female bodies *likes* to hold on to our extra cushion.  😕

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Two names I haven't seen in a while, but I agree - both very smart guys.  I also agree about differences in weight loss between the genders.  Women's bodies definitely want to hold onto that higher body fat.

[ActiveMommy]

Agreed ! And all of my fat seems to be on my upper thighs and ankles! Seems like ALL of it ! Ugh

Thank you all for the great info !

[KendraMN]

Women need some form of healthy fats to help regulate hormones.

[GershonSurge]

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@KendraMN wrote:

Women need some form of healthy fats to help regulate hormones.

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What are healthy and unhealthy fats?

[Dominique]

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@FitBeforeFifty wrote:

5. Eat fewer calories than you burn

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My only disagreement with @FitBeforeFifty is I would put this as #1 (but he probably didn’t list the items in his plan in any particular order). I’ve been monitoring my weight and body fat % using the Fitbit Aria for the past three years. During that time, my weight has fluctuated between 63.5 and 69.5 kg (BMI: 21-23) and my BF between 15.7 and 20.6. My BF % has has consistently been low when my when was low, and vice-versa. I’ve read about "body recomposition" that would have you gain muscle and lose fat at the same time: I wish I could have experienced it, but that hasn’t been the case. I believe it would most likely happen with young males that are carrying a lot of extra fat: I’m an older guy with not that much extra fat, so I’ve accepted the fact I will have to do chase only one hare at a time. Burn fat by eating at a deficit ("cutting"), gain muscle while eating at a surplus ("bulking"), lifting weights in both cases. For the past six months, I’ve been very slowly cutting. My weight came down from about 67 to 63.5 kg:

During the same time, my BF % came down from about 18% to the current level of 15.7%:

3.5 kg / 2.3% may not sound much, but the difference is definitely noticeable (love handles have shrunk, vascularity increased). I plan to continue cutting for another two months or so, and then start bulking (again, very slowly).

Otherwise I agree with @FitBeforeFifty: keep it simple, no fancy tricks required, favour minimally processed food etc.    

[FitBeforeFifty]

@Dominique, the reason I listed 'eat fewer calories than you burn' last is not because of importance. Eating fewer calories than you burn is the most important thing ... in fact, probably the only thing.

In my opinion, macro-nutrient ratios aren't worth the trouble. For example, look at @GershonSurge macro nutrients and diet composition vs. mine. There's a 30% differential in the fat and carb portion of our macro profile. There's also probably at 10% difference in the protein percentage between myself and Gershon. Even though we have completely different macro-nutrient ratios we both lost fat easily. Why ? Because we both ate fewer calories than we burned.