Fat Burning Plan Help

[ActiveMommy]

Hi everyone! I'm focused on fat burning (vs weight loss). I really want to drop from about 25% body fat to 20%. (My real goal is 18% but i'm taking it one step at a time - sort of).

Any way... I've been reading a ton about nutrition and trying to make sense of which foods are good fats, which are simple vs complex carbs, which truly count as proteins etc.

I've also read a lot about how to time what you eat and how much you eat. So ... for example, that you should eat simple carbs within 30 minutes of your workout etc.

I can't seem to find a really good all-inclusive guide though. I've tried ot piece it together myself but it's taking forever! 

I really wish i had something along the linese of - here are your 6-8 meals, here is how many calories and what percent macronutrients per meal, and here are some examples etc. And more so... here's what to do on a rest day vs workout day etc. 

Do any of you know of something like that that I could reference to put a really good fat burning meal plan together?

Thanks!

[KendraMN]

@GershonSurge

I understand that you had great success in no-fat/low-fat diet.  Your numbers look great!!  🙂

Some women don't get enough dietary fat and this can cause amenorrhea.  There is a real health risk with this...including bone loss.

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-healthy-fats

The above link talks about healthy fats.  There is a lot of  evidence-based research on the need for some fat in your diet.

My own research has lead me to believe in the balanced approach without  cutting out entire food groups for overall heath.

I didn't mean to take away what has worked for you.  

At the end of the day.......It's calories in----calories out.  The best diet is one that you can maintain for the long run and doesn't cause health issues.

[shipo]

Duplicate post; annoying.

[shipo]

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@Dominique wrote:

Merely eating chicken breast (= lean protein) won’t be enough to get ripped. If it were that simple, everybody (except vegetarians) would be ripped.

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Errr, "except vegetarians and folks who refuse to eat chicken breast and instead opt for chicken thighs."  🙂

[GershonSurge]

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@KendraMN wrote:

@GershonSurge

I understand that you had great success in no-fat/low-fat diet.  Your numbers look great!!  🙂

Some women don't get enough dietary fat and this can cause amenorrhea.  There is a real health risk with this...including bone loss.

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-healthy-fats

The above link talks about healthy fats.  There is a lot of  evidence-based research on the need for some fat in your diet.

My own research has lead me to believe in the balanced approach without  cutting out entire food groups for overall heath.

I didn't mean to take away what has worked for you.  

At the end of the day.......It's calories in----calories out.  The best diet is one that you can maintain for the long run and doesn't cause health issues.

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@KendraMN

My understanding is that ammenorhea is caused by a low body fat, and not by a low fat diet. The condition first became well-known to me when many elite women athletes during the late 70's and early 80's had it. I think it was an excuse used by men to keep women out of long distance races. 

I am not on a fat free diet. There is plenty of fat in starches and vegetables. If there wasn't fat in plants, where do cows get their fat from? I'm not even on a low-fat diet except by comparison to those who eat meat products. The human body isn't designed to eat meat. If we were, we'd have a straight large intestine just like all other animals who regularly eat meat. Yes, we can tolerate some meat in our diet just as cows can and do. But a person would have to completely ignore well over 50 years of research to think it doesn't contribute to heart disease and other diseases.

Having said that, I'll be the first to agree that small amounts of meat aren't going to prevent a person from living an average lifespan, and more importantly, good health. But why try for average when so many people are abusing their bodies in a way that makes them live less than an average lifespan and they have poor health?

I haven't found any credentials for the person who wrote the article you referenced. I can't even find any credentials for the owners of the website. Personally, I'm fine with people not having credentials if they reference the sources for their information. There weren't any given. Here is an article by Dr. McDougall on the same subject. Much of it is similar to your reference and likely from the same sources. The bottom line is people can get all the fat they need from a plant based diet.

For the purposes of losing weight, a calorie deficit is essential except for possibly a ketogenic diet. These diets help people lose weight by making them sick. They also lead to an early death by heart disease. 

There is something that is bothering me. Everyone expects me to read whatever references they post, and most of the time I do. However, not a SINGLE person has said they watched these twelve videos by Dr. McDougall. Not a SINGLE person has purchased his book, "The Starch Solution" which contains most of the references to studies. Many of these people are morbidly obese with significant medical problems, and they are searching for answers. They are right in these two sources. 

[shipo]

From my unscientific gut guess; our bodies evolved to be omnivores, and as I understand it, folks who eat healthy balance of plant based and animal based foods live the healthiest and longest lives.

Said another way, I do not believe a vegetarian diet, and to a more extreme degree, a vegan diet, is conducive to long term health and life span.

Flame away folks, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[FitBeforeFifty]

One thing I would point out regarding evolutionary justification of how to eat -- natural selection doesn't favor long lifespan creatures -- it favors creatures that can live long enough to reproduce. It certainly would favor a human that can survive on either plants or animals or some combination -- basically whatever is available. That, of course, doesn't mean that the optimal diet is a combination.

There are a lot of studies that show a plant based diet leads to a lower mortality rate. I think there is clear evidence that eating a variety of fruits and vegetables provides protections against disease. The question is how much of that lower mortality rate is due to the protective nature of eating fruits and vegetables vs. the absence of meats.

Overall, I would say McDougall's stance on fats and heart disease are outdated by modern research but there is certainly reasons to be concerned about carcinogens produced when cooking animal proteins. There are quite a few studies that show increases in cancer risks proportional to meat and fat consumption. http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet

Of course I know there is a higher incidince of cancer with meat eaters but I still eat meat with every meal. I choose to eat lots of fruits and vegatables with my meat that provide some protection against the carcinogens.

Eating vegetables high in fiber provides a degree of protection. Fiber greatly speeds the passage of food through the colon, effectively removing carcinogens, and fiber actually changes the type of bacteria that is present in the intestine, so there is reduced production of carcinogenic secondary bile acids. Plant foods are also naturally low in fat and rich in antioxidants and other anti-cancer compounds.

I love to cook, eat and drink wine. It's my hobby. It's what makes me happy and how I relax and enjoy life.

I might live longer if I ate differently but I'm not sure I would enjoy life as much. So, I'm just going to take my chances. The average life expectancy is 78. In terms of fitness and healthy eating, I'm light years ahead of average. But, even if I dooming myself to be average, I think I'd rather live to be 78 enjoying every moment instead of living to be 85 without my olive oil, coffee crusted fillet and glass of cabernet.

[FitBeforeFifty]

Just to show you how complex this gets when you start micro-analyzing food. Tonight I was just teaching my 19 year old daughter how to sear rosemary chicken in a cast iron skillet and then finish it in the oven.

Did you know that rosemary reduces carcinogens in cooked meat by up to 79 percent ? https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100518105801.htm

[A_Lurker]

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FitBeforeFifty wrote: 

I might live longer if I ate differently but I'm not sure I would enjoy life as much. So, I'm just going to take my chances. The average life expectancy is 78. In terms of fitness and healthy eating, I'm light years ahead of average. But, even if I dooming myself to be average, I think I'd rather live to be 78 enjoying every moment instead of living to be 85 without my olive oil, coffee crusted fillet and glass of cabernet.

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A sample of one or two means nothing, but my 88-yr old mother grew up with a meat, potato, high fat diet and up until an MVA vs pedestrian accident a few years back was going strong.  In fact, the only issues she has is because of that.  It was the opinion of the medical staff involved that her general good health is the reason she survived.  She was one of those people who ate lots of candy and chocolate as well, but never gained because of a lot of NEAT.

[shipo]

My wife was recently listening to a lecture given buy a professor from Harvard (I think, I'll confirm that tonight) who happens to be a practicing Vegan.  In his presentation he stated the Vegan diet should, in theory, provide for the longest life span and the highest quality of life, however, per his statistics, those who practice a balanced diet with all forms of meat, fish, dairy, vegetables, fruit, nuts and other legumes had the longest and highest quality life spans.

I'm sure there are lots of studies which contradict pretty much all claims regarding what is the perfect diet; however, for me at least, common sense suggests a widely varied diet is the best for health and longevity.

[GershonSurge]

@shipo,

In 1991, Dr. McDougall said it was fine to eat meat on feast days such as Christmas, Thanksgiving and birthdays. Later, he said he found people couldn't stop eating meat if they at it on these days.

The Pritikin Diet allowed small amounts of meat and fish and perhaps dairy. The reason he included them was people wouldn't even look at a healthier way of eating if he included them.

Dr. Kellogg, who allowed some meat and dairy, lived to his 90's. 

Dr. Ken Cooper allows some animal products. He also encourages the use of the many supplements he sells and hides much of his information behind money. I don't have an objection to this as people deserve to get the rewards from decades of hard work.

Your wife may have seen Dr. Ornish. I think he works at Harvard.I just bought one of his books to broaden my education.

Be careful of the word vegan as it is more an animal rights concept than a way of eating. The word vegan doesn't infer anything except not eating or using animal products. They might subsist on a diet of Oreos, Twinkies and diet soda. The current terminology is a whole foods, plant based diet. 

You may be exaggerating, but the way you describe your diet has been shown to be unhealthy by many studies. This is not to say you are unhealthy as all the studies express their results in terms of percentages. Given your high level of exercise, you may be beating the diet odds another way.

Off to do some work. My back and achilles tendon are much better, and I need to burn some calories. 

[shipo]

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@GershonSurge wrote:

@shipo,

You may be exaggerating, but the way you describe your diet has been shown to be unhealthy by many studies. This is not to say you are unhealthy as all the studies express their results in terms of percentages. Given your high level of exercise, you may be beating the diet odds another way.

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Maybe it is just the way my words have been interpreted.  I eat a very balanced diet with pretty much all food sources being on the menu.  While I only have steak say, two or three times per year, when I have it, I have a NICE cut done rare.

To my way of thinking, "balanced" means everything is balanced with each other item on the menu for any given day, just a fairly high amount due to my daily activity.  Yesterday is a good example:

Breakfast (following a 10-mile trail run on a very hot and humid day):

• Eggs Benedict made from farm to table eggs and farm-to-table sausage made from free-range hogs.  The muffins were locally made as was the salsa and hollandaise sauce.
• Hot oolong green tea, unsweetened.

Lunch:

• Home made buffalo (free-range bison) meat chili with organic tomatoes, black beans, onions, and chili peppers.
• Grated raw whole mild cheddar cheese (not local, imported from all the way over in Vermont).
• Asparagus.
• Organic whole milk.

Dinner:

• Arugula salad (all organic ingredients) with tomatoes, mushrooms, cucumbers and carrots.
• Wild caught Sockeye salmon grilled rare over a charcoal fire.
• Broccoli.
• India Pale Ale brewed at a local organic brewery.

[OCDOC]

Last USA woman born in the 1800's died recently.

Bacon and eggs every day. Yum 🙂

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36285083

PS @shipo Your menu is amazing..so envious! The 10 miles is pre-food?  ie running on stores and not gut? I assume so...awesome.

[Bobbinyc]

@shipo  Wow!  I'm coming to your house for dinner!  And breakfast, lunch....All that organic and free-roaming food sounds wonderful.

[ActiveMommy]

I just wanted to thank everyone who responded to my question. You've all been really helpful as I try to figure this out.

Doing 50% protein (or so) is proving to be really difficult but i will continue to work on it. I'm definitely finding that the way I think of food is changing and i hope that will turn into a habit vs a conscious decision in the future. 

Thanks!

[dancefoxtrot]

@GershonSurge

I know lots of Vegan and I promise you they are not eating junk food like soda, oreos, etc.. I eat mostly veggies and some cheese, eggs and salmon. Veganism  is generally a very healthy  way to eat. 

Maybe we should focus on our own diets and preferences.

Best of health to you all,

BG

[GershonSurge]

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@dancefoxtrot wrote:

@GershonSurge

I know lots of Vegan and I promise you they are not eating junk food like soda, oreos, etc.. I eat mostly veggies and some cheese, eggs and salmon. Veganism  is generally a very healthy  way to eat. 

Maybe we should focus on our own diets and preferences.

Best of health to you all,

BG

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Many vegans eat the imitation meats which have large fat contents. Many eat the popular frozen dinners that also have large fat contents. Many vegans avoid starchy foods. Many eat large quantities of nuts and large quantities of fruits while trying to lose weight. Many use vegetable oils in their cooking. Many couple veganism with calorie restriction and don't look healthy.

Much of this doesn't matter for women as they have a natural immunity to many cancers and heart problems if they stay away from smoking and eating heavily processed foods. 

The OP specifically asked for a way of eating that will reduce fat and increase lean mass. Since I've recently done that and recorded the data, my opinion matters. She also said she is trying to get 50%  of her calories from protein. This most likely will help her gain lean mass, but at the expense of her kidneys. Should I stay quiet when I have the research to support that position? Especially since there are ways to safely reach her goal.

No, I don't think we should focus on our own preferences. If we don't express them, how are we to learn of different opinions? How are people to learn that variations of the Atkins diet are deadly and don't work in the long term for weight loss? How would I learn of those who eat what I call "The Leave it to Beaver Diet" are healthy? 

[ActiveMommy]

Gershonsurge,
You mentioned at the expense of my kidneys. I see soany sites say to eat 1g of protein per lb. Do you think this is unsafe ? I've actually seen as high as 1.5g/lb.

Thanks !

[FitBeforeFifty]

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@ActiveMommy wrote:
Gershonsurge,
You mentioned at the expense of my kidneys. I see soany sites say to eat 1g of protein per lb. Do you think this is unsafe ? I've actually seen as high as 1.5g/lb.

Thanks !

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1.0 g per LB of body weight is internet urban legend. It's the result of people confusing 1 gram per KG with 1 gram per LB. Here's a recommendation from the people that work in the field of sports nutrition.

[GershonSurge]

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@ActiveMommy wrote:
Gershonsurge,
You mentioned at the expense of my kidneys. I see soany sites say to eat 1g of protein per lb. Do you think this is unsafe ? I've actually seen as high as 1.5g/lb.

Thanks !

---

@ActiveMommy

Here is an article by Dr. McDougall. The protein requirements in this article are usually stated as a percentage of calories consumed. In a footnote to one of the tables, it said the necessary amount of protein decreases if a person consumes fewer calories. The dangers are not only to the kidneys. There are other serious problems, too. 

Yesterday, 11% of my calories were from protein. I consumed 72 grams of protein, which is within a few grams of the recommendation in the table Fitbeforefifty mentioned. Right now, I put myself in the sedentary range because a couple injuries prevent me from serious exercise. That is changing as the injuries are healing.

In another article, Dr. McDougall states we don't gain lean mass because of hard eating; we gain it because of hard work. In order to grow, muscles need to be stressed. It is virtually impossible to design a diet that doesn't have enough protein.

The hazards increase when the percentage of protein in the diet exceed 15%. It's worse if animal products are the source of protein.

The safe way to increase the need for protein is to increase the number of calories burned so you can increase the amount of food eaten while not increasing weight. When you do this, the muscles will develop in the way dictated by the type of exercise. My opinion is if a person is not satisfied with their muscle development, they should look at the type of exercise they are doing and not the amount of protein.

[FitBeforeFifty]

I agree with @GershonSurge

We have been brainwashed by fitness magazines and untrained, uneducated personal trainers to believe we need protein supplements and post work out shakes. The average american already consumes twice the recommended amount of protein http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jessica-jones-ms-rd/protein-diet_b_1882372.html

According to my fitbit, I'm in the 99th percentile in terms of activity level. I lift heavy twice per week and run 20 - 30 miles per week (40 - 50 mpw when training). I don't supplement protein. My post workout meal is breakfast, lunch or dinner. Just eating my normal diet I consume well above the recommendation for protein.

The other thing I will note is that your recommended protein is not a percentage of your diet. It's a fixed number of grams. If you are eating at a deficit, you might be higher in percentage than you will be in maintenance.