Intermittent Fasting

[hawkinsblake]

Hello,

Hey everyone just wanted to start a quick topic to see if anyone else has tired, failed, or is curious about Intermittent Fasting. In the case of intermittent fasting (IF), the "diet" actually refers to periods of fasting, meaning you are restricted to eating very little—or nothing at all—for periods of time lasting anywhere from 16-24 hours. It may sound a little crazy, but intermittent fasting has been suggested as an effective weight loss tool, with research supporting its ability to increase fat oxidation, reduce body weight, and accelerate fat loss. 

The central idea behind the implementation of intermittent fasting is to reduce overall calorie consumption, ideally resulting in weight loss. Typically, IF protocols will have the individual undergo a period of intentional severe calorie restriction (ranging from 0-25 percent of the individual's normal daily caloric intake) for a period of 16-24 hours. Following the restrictive phase, the individual returns to relatively normal energy intake for 8-24 hours, depending on which version of IF they are following.

I am doing the 16 hour fast where I consume nothing but water and a cup of black coffee in the mid morning to hold me over. Then I eat my normal range of calories for the day in an 8 hour window. For me this is from Noon to 8pm. I am on my 5th day so can't atest to being an expert but I am loving all the research I have found and was just curious to see if there is anyone else out there.

[divedragon]

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@Dominique wrote:

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@divedragon wrote:

I'm also switching from my 20:4 regiment to every other day fasting.

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If you every other day fasting is 0 calories / 24 hours and only water, this sounds excessive to me. With 0 calorie days alternating with days when you eat at maintenance, you have a 50% deficit at the weekly level. That’s a lot.

Brad Pilon ("Eat-Stop-Eat") recommands 1-2 days of 24-hour fasting per week. This is perfectly sustainable in my own experience (1 day per week being easy, 2 days per week tougher). I definitely wouldn’t do it every second day myself.

Unless I didn’t get your "every other day fasting" right.

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so this is the 3d time I'm attempting to answer this as I keep getting distracted and it times out.  Anyway, yes you have it basically right, but the actual time in without eating is closer to 36.  Also, not necessarily eating at maintenance, maybe a touch higher.  I'm familiar with all protocols for IF, but as I've been doing a lot of research on this in the scientific papers, most of the research has been done on either alternate day fasting or even longer periods.  In fact, for the obese, studies have included up to a 24 day fast and it was tolerated quite well.  Zero calories, all the non caloric fluid participants wanted and a daily vitamine.  Patients lost anywhere from 3-5 lbs per day and also reported a higher sense of well being during the fast.  Incidently, the world record for a continuous fast is 384 days set my a scotsman who started at well over 400 lbs and ended at 184.  After 5 years he had only gone back up to 193.

As I'm no longer obese (just fat now), I wouldn't go more than 2 days fasting and so far I'm still eating 600 calories on my fasting day.  I'll be weighing in again this coming Friday, so I'll let you know if its overcoming my plateau.

[Shortsbysummer]

It's that it takes too long to eat salad not that I can't chew/ear. I only get 10 minutes for lunch by the time I deal with all my students, open their thermoses, open their yogurt tubes, etc or walk supervision, etc. I can't eat while I teach but I can drink. I almost never get to eat sitting down during my work day, I'm either walking the halls or outside supervising, or running clubs at lunch-hour (which shouldn't be called that, it's only 20-min). I get to sit at 3:20 on a good day and 4:00 if I have bus supervision. 😞

[divedragon]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

Your IF style is very different than mine and seems more appropriate for major cutting - rather than building muscle. Lifting weights daily on a major deficit won’t allow your body the time or energy to recover, even if you’re not working on the same body parts daily.

I do the 16/8 style IF, 16 hours fast with 8 hour eating window, on a daily basis. I’ll eat at maintenance calories during that time. On recovery days I’ll eat at a slight calorie deficit, or at maintenance, and on workout days I’ll eat at a slight surplus. I lift weights 3-4 times a week (rotating split body workout), and light to moderate cardio on most days (20-45 minutes). I always skipped a day between lift days, sometimes 2 (I recover slowly).

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16:8 works great and how I began.  I'm not a body builder for sure.  I do lift weights, but at 57 years old, body building ship has sailed.  My goal is to loose the fat and take advantage of other things IF offers other than just weight loss.  One of the those is the increased growth hormone that is secreted in greater amounts further into the fast.  One of the advantages of this is it stimulates stem cells to produce new cells where needed and that includes nurons in the brain.  There is evidence to suggest that because of this and other reasons to do with protien synthisis, fasting may contribute to staving off age related cognitive diseases. 

When I started fasting, I had already lost from 240 to 214, but had stalled.  I had been suffering with digestive issues since 2010 to the point where I never wanted to venture more than 2 minutes from a bathroom.  Even with the loss in weight, this problem persisted.  Since fasting, that resolved.  I also had severe acid reflux which has also resolved. 

The more I read and the more I practice this lifestyle makes me more and more convinced the human was just not designed to have a continuous supply of food.  Only animals like cattle, sheep and other grazing animals have a design to eat almost continuously and that may mostly be due to the low nutritional density of grasses.  When I get down to my ideal weight, I will continue the fasting, but may reduce it's frequency or increase calories during my feasting periods.

[Corney]

What have you read to convince you that humans were not designed to have a continuous food supply.  Early man was a hunter, which meant they did not have a continuous food supply, but that was 10,000's years ago.  The human body has changed, evolved since then.  If your only rationale for IF is that you think man was not meant to have a continuous food supply. I see that as fuzzy logic.

[awood08]

Just have to say, 5 mins until I can eat!!! WOOO, this is harder than I thought! lol

It's been great as far as feeling good inside but man that 10-12noon time frame gets me every time!

I'm fasting from 8pm to 12noon the next day, so for me who always was a breakfast first thing in the morning person this has been a HUGE change!

[divedragon]

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@Corney wrote:

What have you read to convince you that humans were not designed to have a continuous food supply.  Early man was a hunter, which meant they did not have a continuous food supply, but that was 10,000's years ago.  The human body has changed, evolved since then.  If your only rationale for IF is that you think man was not meant to have a continuous food supply. I see that as fuzzy logic.

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So agriculture or the domestication of plants and animals started about 12,500 years ago, but the first emergence of modern human happened 200,000 years ago.  So for 177,500 years, we were hunter gathers and that is how our genome developed.  Probably even in the early days of agriculture, food was plentiful in warmer temps, but scarce in the winter.  Then you have the years when the crops didn't do well, most certainly a common even in the early days of agriculture given the number of times crops have failed in recorded time (Irish Potato Famain, dust bowl).  But reversing  177 thousand years of evolution in 7% of that time is highly unlikely especially given not all cultures experienced 3 meal a day rules until european settlers came to their area and that isn't all inclusive.  The Romans believed it was healthier to eat just 1 meal a day.  Native American's ate when they were hungry and not based on a schedule.  3 meals a day is a realitivly new concept in the evolutionary scale.

[divedragon]

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@awood08 wrote:

Just have to say, 5 mins until I can eat!!! WOOO, this is harder than I thought! lol

It's been great as far as feeling good inside but man that 10-12noon time frame gets me every time!

I'm fasting from 8pm to 12noon the next day, so for me who always was a breakfast first thing in the morning person this has been a HUGE change!

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Hang in there, it does get easier.  I'm trying for a 5 day fast and I'm on day 2 which is supposed to be the hardest.  I haven't eaten since about 10 pm Saturday.  I did 20 minute jog this morning and plan a walk at lunch.  I sometimes miss breakfast, but when I'm done this fast, I'm going to continue with alternate day fasting to include breakfast.

[divedragon]

I am trying for a 5 day fast this week.  It didn't start of this way, but I have been attempting to switch from the 20:4 protocol to an Alternate Day Fasting.  That started last week and on fasting days, I consumed between 500-600 calories.  I visited some friends over the weekend and kind of slipped back to a 20:4 schedule until Saturday when I ate breakfast and dinner along with some evening snacks.  My rational was that I could enjoy eating with my friends and fast Sunday as I traveled back to my work site. 

I did well Sunday and my only calories were the 1.5 oz of whiskey I drank just before bed for a total of 120 calories.  I woke up this morning and hit the gym for a 20 minute jog and another 15 minutes of walking and decided after that to try for not eating today either.  As the morning progressed, I decided I would go for a 5 day fast after reading a few articles.

So I'm on day two of this fast which by accounts is probably the hardest day.  People reported feeling lethargic and weak.  I do feel a little hungry and sleepy, but the sleepiness is probaby due to the only 5 hours of sleep I got last night (I don't sleep well in general, so this in normal).  It's 1 pm as I write this and I just came back from a 45 minute brisk walk in which I covered approx 2.5 miles.  I didn't feel the least bit fatigued on this walk.  In fact, I felt energized.  I do wish I could go take a nap though - but again, that's normal for me.

[hawkinsblake]

Yes it gets much easier. Try not to focus too much on the clock getting closer to or you will drive you self crazy in the beginning. What type of fitbit do you have. I set timers on mine to buzz when my feeding window starts and when it stops. I try to keep myself busy until the buzz. Welcome to the fam.

[Ashley5683]

Thank you for posting about this. I have been considering trying it for a few weeks now. I've been trying to lose a certain amount of weight for almost two years now and I always seem to fail. My friend who is a nutritionist suggested I give it a shot. She said it could help build discipline. i'm really happy you have tried it and kept everyone informed.

[divedragon]

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@Ashley5683 wrote:

Thank you for posting about this. I have been considering trying it for a few weeks now. I've been trying to lose a certain amount of weight for almost two years now and I always seem to fail. My friend who is a nutritionist suggested I give it a shot. She said it could help build discipline. i'm really happy you have tried it and kept everyone informed.

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Welcome to the lifestyle.  Try combining IF with Low Carb, High Fat diet.  Good luck and let us know if you have any questions, comments or confusions.

[Ashley5683]

Thank you. I will definately keep the thread updated on my progress. I know a lot of people were curious how well this would work for a woman so I might as well try it and let eveyone know how well it works. I do have one question, I need to lose about 30 pounds or 6% body fat. I am trying to join the Army and apparently they dont accept fat (but really doesnt look or feel fat) people. I like to weight train and I've always been told that I have to eat more calories than I burn to build muscle and to lose weight I have to have a calorie deficit. So my question is, Is it possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time? Should I have a calories deficit or should I eat more than I burn?

[Dominique]

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@Ashley5683 wrote:

So my question is, Is it possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time?

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Yes, it’s supposed to be possible under certain conditions: you are new to weight lifting, you have a fair amount of fat to lose. However, you would be gaining less muscle than you would otherwise (with the same amount of resistance training and in the same period of time) in a caloric surplus, and you would be losing less fat than you would otherwise (again, all things being equal) in a caloric deficit.The process of gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time is known as "body recomposition" (or "recomp", in short) among specialists.

This link provides guidelines about muscle gains various people can expect. The site is appropriately named bodyrecomposition.com 😉

[divedragon]

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@Ashley5683 wrote:

Thank you. I will definately keep the thread updated on my progress. I know a lot of people were curious how well this would work for a woman so I might as well try it and let eveyone know how well it works. I do have one question, I need to lose about 30 pounds or 6% body fat. I am trying to join the Army and apparently they dont accept fat (but really doesnt look or feel fat) people. I like to weight train and I've always been told that I have to eat more calories than I burn to build muscle and to lose weight I have to have a calorie deficit. So my question is, Is it possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time? Should I have a calories deficit or should I eat more than I burn?

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You'll need to get into Ketosis so your body will have the energy it needs.  Couple of ways to do it, but mainly its a low carb thing and fasting can help.  Get your diet to 40% fat, 35% protein and 25% carbs.  To get you there, consider a 3 day fast as a primer which should get you solidly into ketosis, then use the diet to keep you there.  Google Low Carb, High Fat diet.  The ketones will give you energy to workout and build muscle.  I would also try taking a Branch Chain Ammino Acid supplement, especially if you calorie restrict.  Do your lift just before you break your fast as your growth hormones will be at their highest.

Good luck with the Army.  I'm a vet myself with 7 years active duty.

[Ashley5683]

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@divedragon wrote:

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@Ashley5683 wrote:

Thank you. I will definately keep the thread updated on my progress. I know a lot of people were curious how well this would work for a woman so I might as well try it and let eveyone know how well it works. I do have one question, I need to lose about 30 pounds or 6% body fat. I am trying to join the Army and apparently they dont accept fat (but really doesnt look or feel fat) people. I like to weight train and I've always been told that I have to eat more calories than I burn to build muscle and to lose weight I have to have a calorie deficit. So my question is, Is it possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time? Should I have a calories deficit or should I eat more than I burn?

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You'll need to get into Ketosis so your body will have the energy it needs.  Couple of ways to do it, but mainly its a low carb thing and fasting can help.  Get your diet to 40% fat, 35% protein and 25% carbs.  To get you there, consider a 3 day fast as a primer which should get you solidly into ketosis, then use the diet to keep you there.  Google Low Carb, High Fat diet.  The ketones will give you energy to workout and build muscle.  I would also try taking a Branch Chain Ammino Acid supplement, especially if you calorie restrict.  Do your lift just before you break your fast as your growth hormones will be at their highest.

Good luck with the Army.  I'm a vet myself with 7 years active duty.

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Thank you. I'm having a bit of difficulty with the low carb high fat diet. I have a very picky stomach so high fat foods like avocados etc tend to make me feel nauseated. I dont really eat much thats not healthy. I actually eat pretty much the same thing every day. I start my day with almond milk (dairy makes me ill), whey protein, a piece of fruit, and some trail mix. My lunch is baked chicken breast and a vegetable. My dinner is usually ground turkey with some taco seasoning and another vegetable. I also have casien and almond milk right before bed. How would you guys personally tweak that? My exercise routine is pretty sound. I have professional help on that front, it's my diet that I have failed at so many times. It's taken such a long time to stop eating junk and to get as close to clean eating as I have gotten.I know I have a senitive stomach but at this point I an ready to just suck it up and get it done. Advice?

[Raviv]

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@Ashley5683 wrote:

Thank you. I'm having a bit of difficulty with the low carb high fat diet. I have a very picky stomach so high fat foods like avocados etc tend to make me feel nauseated.

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Try a shot of apple cider vinegar with meals.  It will help with digesting and maybe keep you from getting nauseous.

[Dominique]

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@Ashley5683 wrote:

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It's taken such a long time to stop eating junk and to get as close to clean eating as I have gotten.

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"Clean" eating is better than eating junk, of course, but you still need to be in a caloric deficit in order to lose weight/fat. If you’re eating clean, but not losing weight, the problem is not with what you eat, but how much (portions sizes etc.). Are you counting calories? 

[Ashley5683]

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@Raviv wrote:

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Try a shot of apple cider vinegar with meals.  It will help with digesting and maybe keep you from getting nauseous

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Thanks, I'll give that a shot

[Ashley5683]

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@Dominique wrote:

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"Clean" eating is better than eating junk, of course, but you still need to be in a caloric deficit in order to lose weight/fat. If you’re eating clean, but not losing weight, the problem is not with what you eat, but how much (portions sizes etc.). Are you counting calories? 

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I am slowly losing weight. I've lost 60 pounds over the last year and a half. The clean eating lifestlyle is something that I have just recently adopted. I come from a family that lives on fast food. My husband is the exact same way. A far as calories go, I'm eating 14-1600 a day. I am very active. I love to run (who knew) I run four times a week. I lift daily. I take my kids on 2-3 mile walks daily. Keep in mind, this is all a fairly new lifestyle to me. I only stopped eating junk food and sugar less than 6 months ago. My weight loss prior to that is due to restricting my caories. I wasnt paying much attetnion to the quality of the food I ate, just the amount of it.

[Littlera]

Ha Guys I’m going for the fast five version of IF so my feeding times are from 3pm till 7pm. I drink water with a squeeze of lemon in it through out the day and add in 2 black coffees one at 9am and one at 12pm….. I plan to break my fast with a few pieces of fruit and make sure I saviour the flavours to slow me down a bit then I have a rest and eat again at about 4pm with my final eating at 630pm. I train in the morning after waking up HIIT and Strength with some pilates in there to help with flexibility. I have never felt better physically with so much energy through out the day, and mentally I have so much brain stimulation through out the day I’m setting goals and smashing them….. I have been on this eating cycle for 3 and a half weeks and will be heading back to the doctor for another set of bloods next week to see how I’m doing on the inside…. I have lost 4 kg and with only 200grams being lean mass lost…..