Sleep stages do not add up to time asleep.

[Zardoz99]

I can see how some sleep recording problems can exist as Sleep mode depends on heart rates and movement.  But my issue is clear cut so I am either missing some information or the Charge 4 can't add. 

Basically, the "Time Asleep" does NOT equal REM + Light + Deep.   My time Asleep is always LESS than the three stages added up BUT always more than a combination of any two of them.   So could someone explain what I'm missing? 

Thanks! 

[Podunk]

I am a blind user using the iPhone voiceover screen reader. I had a similar problem doing calculations to figure out sleep percentages because most of the time Fitbit on the records one or two sometimes three in a very rare occasion all for sleep zone percentages. I found that and doing calculations to convert I had to total time in the three sleep zones and awake. I hope you might find this helpful. If you do a search you may find the postings where megabyte helped me to figure my sleep stage questions out.

[Zardoz99]

Hi Podunk. I'm not sure if I understood your comment. My sleep time is in hours and minutes so I'm not using percentages. I have four sleep stages listed and my "Time Asleep" from Fitbit does not match any combination of the stages. You would think the Time Asleep would match the total of the 4 stages minus the awake stage but it does not. REM sleep + Light sleep + Deep sleep is always longer than Time Asleep.  My guess is that Light Sleep or REM sleep does not count as 100% sleep.     

[Podunk]

Let me see if I can help. I am dictating this on my iPhone so there may be transcription errors that will require you to do some interpretation. Second the reference to meters is a little bug I have with the sleep graph because minutes is labeled as meters when my voiceover software reads the data. Third I convert all time two minutes for convenient calculations.

At the home screen click on sleep at the next page select the date you wish to look at and calculate total sleep time from the time you go to sleep to the time you wake up this number should include the total of all four sleep stages. Next click on that number and go to the text screen. The total sleep time did not include time awake. I am told further down the screen there is a graph where I get time and sleep sounds and percentage in sleep sounds. Because of data formatting I sometimes only get one or two percentages of time and sleep zones and the actual time in zones is not always in the same order. I have become pretty good at figuring this out and have usually gotten a pretty good idea of sleep outcomes.

There has been at least one update since the last time I took the time to figure this information out so if it changes they have made my methodology incorrect. I have done all the calculations in my head so sometimes determining the information I want can be a bit of a challenge. this helps and I hope I have not lead you astray.

When megabyte helped me figure this out in the community he provided me with some links to explain sleep outcomes.

[Zardoz99]

Hi Podunk,

Last night Fitbit says I went to sleep at 2:22 am and got up at 10:02 am.  That is 7 hours and 40 minutes.  Fitbit reports I was awake 45 minutes during the night so my sleep time should be 6 hours and 55 minutes. But it is not. Fitbit has it as 6 hours and 37 minutes so 18 minutes are missing. The screens you go to get your information sound different from mine but the information Fitbit provides me is all on one screen and easy to read. It just doesn't add up, pardon the pun. 

Thanks and take care.

[Podunk]

I thought I had sleep zones sleep time and sleep percentages all figured out.

like you I would like an answer. So I’m asking is there a Fitbit moderator out there who can direct us to the answer or explain it in a way that the community can understand. Going to the manual and searching for sleep I have not been able to find the answer we all appear to be looking for

as a process for calculating sleep been changed in one of the recent updates? Are we overlooking something that is obvious? is there a resource link that will get us directly to the answer?

baffled, confused and frustrated

[SallyOz]

I have the same issue. I’d like an answer too. 

[Podunk]

This thread has not been acknowledged by any of the Fitbit moderators. Other conversation threads on the same topic however have been acknowledged and some information given. In the case of other topics such as the step Street being reset common threads have been combined so that contributors can see responses from the moderators and the number of complaints and suggestions made by the community and be easily accessed by the Fitbit developers.

I regularly look at forums for the charge for, the iOS app, and suggested teachers from the community.

[Zardoz99]

Podunk, I thought this was such a simple question that a moderator would have a clear explanation in a couple of days. Something like “only 80% of light sleep counts as sleep”.  But no, no one seems to have noticed and mine is usually reduced by 20 minutes so I almost never meet my sleep goal. This is such a straightforward question it shouldn’t be muddled with other sleep issues that I see out there.  If you happen to see an answer out there please post it here. Thanks.

[Podunk]

I read in community under iOS app that the iOS and database home screens are identical. It stated that the iOS app sleep screens however were different from the database sleep screens. I inferred based on list that the database sweet screens may be correct.

it’s a blind user I find the database screens to be exceptionally frustrating to work with. And I therefore have not tried to compare the iOS app screens with those of the database screens. I hope the information is helpful but I offer no promises and no guarantees.

[SallyOz]

I agree. Mine is reduced about 20 minutes between the two views 1. Overall sleep and 2. Specifically Deep and REM. There must be an algorithm and a reason for the discrepancy- knowing what it is might actually be useful. 

[SallyOz]

mine add up to the same number but time awake changes from 1hr 48 to 1hr 09

 

 

[Zardoz99]

This is interesting. After seeing your pics SallyOz I decided to view my PC stats and amazingly they added up correctly. I then checked my iPhone for the same night and the numbers are different. The Time Asleep is the same in both but the iPhone has incorrect values in the stages. The Light sleep is longer on the iPhone compared to the PC and the Time awake is shorter on the iPhone than compared to the PC. I guess this may be this is what you were suggesting Podunk with the iOS app and database comments.   

9 hours sleep Sally? Must be nice, lol.  

PC Version:

iPhone version

[SallyOz]

Interesting. Is your PC running the same version of the app as your phone? Phones often auto update and you may have your PC on manual updates? Just a thought. 
I’m retired and I live in Australia. I am using my Fitbit to track HRV which is directly linked to sleep time spent below daytime resting heart rate. You might notice it took almost 11 hours to get 9 hours (my goal). 🙄 It’s that night time restlessness I am trying to overcome. 🤔 My awake time during sleep looks like a barcode! 

You look like a young fit person!! Probably need less sleep 😬 You are getting good deep sleep and not awake too much 👍

[Podunk]

It appears the Fitbit software developers have turned loose and other gremlin. I’m glad you were able to find the discrepancies between the dashboard and the iOS app. I would have gone mad trying to compare the dashboard sleep screens with the sleep screens on the iOS app and doing it all in my head.

I have made a suggestion to the community in the area titled feed gestures. I have suggested that the software developers before releasing updates used software readers such as voiceover to review screens for accessibility to Dallas work line or otherwise reading disabled. I am pleased to know that a number of people have voted for my suggestion and I hope that it’s some point it will be The feature suggestions that is accepted. I apologize for any difficulty in reading this because I am dictating this on my iPhone.

In another life before I retired I reported on physical outcomes. I analyzed and prepared reports for senior management including some software creation. That is why I am so frustrated when I see Fitbit results that I would have been embarrassed to have turned in to senior management and others in the healthcare organization I work for.

Thank you for letting me be a part of your conversations, mark Elias Podunk
From the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in the United States of America

Sent from my iPhone

[SallyOz]

Hi Mark
It’s great that you are using this tech to monitor your health and still using your professional skills to guide developers to a better product for yourself and others.
In another life, before I retired, I advised corporations on CRM (customer relationship management) which is key to company growth (and profit) - so I feel your frustration!
Gartner predicted voice recognition software would be mainstream by 2000. They were out by 20 years. It’s only reached an acceptable level of usability in the last few years.
Ironic that we went from voice via the phone to text and full circle back to voice via software.
Keep up the good work!

Sent from my iPhone

[SallyOz]

Unwanted duplicate message 

[Podunk]

.

Sent from my iPhone Sally I have enjoyed being part of this thread and I will continue to tilt at windmills. I so want to see the Fitbit app be friendly for those people who are blind and otherwise reading disabled.

Voiceover is not always clear and I did not realize until you mentioned it that you were from Australia. What my ears heard was Oz The magical land in the books by Frank bomb.

[Zardoz99]

Hi Mark, Sally,

Sally, I'm a lot older than my pic. When my family picked me up my first Polar Loop 1 that was the photo we had on my PC at the time and it was already old. From there it just got ported from Loop 1 to 2 to Charge 3 and then Charge 4.

Mark, I was an IT manager at a major Canadian Bank which is also big in the States now and when we implemented software updates there was so much testing done beforehand and the "change" process was so tight that errors like Fitbit seems to constantly encounter would be very rare and if we did have some there were backout contingency plans. I guess today the motto is to pump them out as fast as you can and the customers you upset are just the price you pay for trying to keep up with the competition.   

I find my Charge 4 very frustrating and we haven't even spoken about the GPS issues, so I can't imagine and don't want to imagine not being sighted and dealing with it.  I had not thought about it before but with all this new technology progressing so fast, is it getting more difficult for vision-impaired people to keep up with the changes or easier? With everything becoming phone-centric, there is now a real need for a comprehensive phone-app-user interface for the visually impaired. 

I hear the Dashboard is going to be discontinued so I hope they correct the iOS Fitbit app before they do. 

Sally, is Oz part of your last name or does it have some other significance? 

[Podunk]

Understand why they would want to discontinue the dashboard. It is not friendly to the blind and I’m sure it’s frustrating to those who are cited. That’s your nap I would hope that the replacement for the dashboard would take into consideration people with low vision.

I am not a good person to ask about modern technology and that I have not worked in the number of years. My first computer was a Commodore 64 with audiotape as its memory. My first work computer was a 10 meg running on Dos and I was the go to person for problems with the DOS operating system. Today I do everything on my iPhone I have the Microsoft seeing AI application which allows me to use the iPhone camera to read labels mail and other things. I use the Apple voiceover app as my screen reader and it is incredible. I have other apps to help me like seeing AI we are people volunteer to read information for you. Many companies like Walmart and spectrum communications have taken into account the blind and the voiceover software provided by Apple to make shopping experiences seamless. Others like Home Depot and BJ’s wholesale club a wholesale super market company I have not been responsive to request from blind users.

I should also say the Google and the other search engines that are available including Safari do a great job that providing seamless access for the blind. It is amazing what can be accomplished with the Apple iPhone