Guided breathing, Versa vs. Charge 2, Decisions made by algorithm

[MasterHigg]

I became a believer nearly instantly in HRV breathing as a result of using the Charge 2. I got further into HRV research, buying a chest band and using apps like Elite to take readiness / fatigue assessments. 

I have a few questions:

1. Regarding the Versa, something seems... off about the guided breathing sessions. Having used them on the Charge 2 SO much, I notice it immediately. The app itself also finds me to be out of sync a significant amount of time, but I am very extensively practiced in HRV breathing. I was almost constantly found to be in sync when using Charge 2. It's possible I'm not interpreting the circle correctly... but how hard is it really to follow a circle? Are there any configurable options somewhere that I haven't looked, and if not, are any options in development?

2. What (besides the UI) is different about the Versa HRV breathing program as compared to Charge 2?

3. What actual "decisions" does the HRV breathing app make, and how can I see those decisions? Anyone who has used it has noticed that the length of the breaths will be shorter or longer based on.... something. I'd like to learn about what that "something" is. 

I can't overstate how successful the Charge 2 HRV sessions have been for me. Since I've upgraded to a new device I'd like to continue that success. And as I mentioned I also use 3rd party apps like Elite and I will soon be receiving my Corsense monitor. The Elite app allows you to configure breath lengths and such so I'd like to learn more, with my success on the Charge 2 as the basis. 

Thanks much!

[aharvey0812]

I'm not as into the guided breathing as OP but do tend to use it int he evenings and I have noticed there is a difference. My Charge 2 always helped me slow my breathing. The versa seems to be speeding it up and in turn my heart rate. I suppose if this is going to be the only failing of the Versa IMO it's not too horrible but I'd like to know what's up.

[MasterHigg]

It's distinctly different, and I'm not finding that great spot of relaxation as I was with the Charge 2. Whatever is different I hope they fix it. Quickly. 

[MasterHigg]

I paid closer attention to the actual lengths of the breaths and you are exactly right: It seems the breath lengths are *less than* 3 seconds. It nearly feels like hyperventilating to me. HRV studies show ~3 seconds is nearly optimal. But what the Charge 2 did was make even longer breaths at times which had the effect of slowing me down nicely. Really bummed right now because I already sold my Charge 2 to a friend. Help Fitbit!

[BlazeFS]

I thought it was me doing something wrong. The Versa is the first time I've used the guided breathing, but I always end up with a higher heart rate and feel like I'm almost hyperventilating.

Doing a 2 minutes breathing session multiple times a day should be an awesome way to slow down, but so far I'm not that impressed by it. I hope it's something an update can fix.

[MasterHigg]

I'm glad to hear this honestly, because it affirms there is an issue with the application, which can be fixed. 

Discovery of HRV breathing / training has been truly life changing for me. I am looking for a response from Fitbit acknowledging the issue and hopefully promptly fixing it. 

[MasterHigg]

Still looking for an response from Fitbit to... any... of my questions here. Thanks.

[Jujube289]

How does HRV breathing work? Can you tell me more? I tried the guided breathing on my Blaze but found it to be too fast. Thanks!

[MasterHigg]

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@Jujube289 wrote:

How does HRV breathing work? Can you tell me more? I tried the guided breathing on my Blaze but found it to be too fast. Thanks!

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It's amaze. I honestly feared that some day they'd break the app on Charge 2. Well I upgraded to Versa and I find it isn't doing anything adaptive at all. And Fitbit seems to be avoiding my questions here like the plague. Pretty ridiculous. Am not happy at all.

[MasterHigg]

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@MasterHigg wrote:

I became a believer nearly instantly in HRV breathing as a result of using the Charge 2. I got further into HRV research, buying a chest band and using apps like Elite to take readiness / fatigue assessments. 

I have a few questions:

1. Regarding the Versa, something seems... off about the guided breathing sessions. Having used them on the Charge 2 SO much, I notice it immediately. The app itself also finds me to be out of sync a significant amount of time, but I am very extensively practiced in HRV breathing. I was almost constantly found to be in sync when using Charge 2. It's possible I'm not interpreting the circle correctly... but how hard is it really to follow a circle? Are there any configurable options somewhere that I haven't looked, and if not, are any options in development?

2. What (besides the UI) is different about the Versa HRV breathing program as compared to Charge 2?

3. What actual "decisions" does the HRV breathing app make, and how can I see those decisions? Anyone who has used it has noticed that the length of the breaths will be shorter or longer based on.... something. I'd like to learn about what that "something" is. 

I can't overstate how successful the Charge 2 HRV sessions have been for me. Since I've upgraded to a new device I'd like to continue that success. And as I mentioned I also use 3rd party apps like Elite and I will soon be receiving my Corsense monitor. The Elite app allows you to configure breath lengths and such so I'd like to learn more, with my success on the Charge 2 as the basis. 

Thanks much!

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2 weeks and still no response at all from Fitbit. Questions 2 and 3 should be easy enough to answer, even if you have broken the Versa in some unknown way.

[MasterHigg]

4 weeks no response. What the hell Fitbit??

[SunsetRunner]

I agree. I didn’t have a charge 2 but occasionally did the breathing app on a friends. It seemed to be the right pace. When I first got the versa I immediately noticed that it seemed too fast. Is this going to be updated? Or at least allow some user input into the duration

[SunsetRunner]

Still nothing? No update in the meantime? I'd like to buy a Versa but this problem could be a deal-breaker for me 

[MasterHigg]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

Still nothing? No update in the meantime? I'd like to buy a Versa but this problem could be a deal-breaker for me 

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I also opened a support ticket, and they said my questions would be escalated to the Versa team and they would contact me. Want to guess if they contacted me? *They did not.* I got a brief explanation of what HRV was more or less *from the support ticket responder*... which I already know... and none of my questions about the algorithm... which apply to other devices like the Charge 2 so it should be easy enough to answer, were answered. 
I guess I've asked about some forbidden company secret. Or Fitbit support is terrible. One of the two

[SunsetRunner]

Maybe in the Versa, they tried to improve on the algorithm used in Charge 2. But if many peeps disapprove it, they should DO something, preferably launching a more sophisticated version, or, at least, going back to the Charge 2 algorithm. Disappointing.

[MasterHigg]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

Maybe in the Versa, they tried to improve on the algorithm used in Charge 2. But if many peeps disapprove it, they should DO something, preferably launching a more sophisticated version, or, at least, going back to the Charge 2 algorithm. Disappointing.

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The Charge 2 was fabulous. Literally life changing for me as I said above. My money is on some idiot lawyers telling them they can't answer my questions. The same idiot lawyers who won't let us use the spo2 sensor that is ALREADY IN THE VERSA. The same idiot lawyers / managers that are sinking this company.

[SunsetRunner]

Is it possible to initiate a poll about this problem among Versa users? If Fitbit saw that many folks are annoyed, they panic and take action 🙂 

[Tem3112]

I recently got a Versa.  Did you ever get an answer?  I don't see one posted here.

[MasterHigg]

Nope, they don't care. How dare me ask, I guess.

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@Tem3112 wrote:

I recently got a Versa.  Did you ever get an answer?  I don't see one posted here.

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[Chesspresso]

Like you, HRV breathing is now an essential part of my life now. I do it via different apps on my phone, but always like the convenience of having a guide on my wrist as well. Guess I won't be upgrading to the versa then.