Deep Sleep and How to Get More

[WavyDavey]

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[Letmein]

I totally agree. As a person who has struggled to get more than 10% deep sleep each night for the past 2 years (since getting the fit it but suspect most of my adult life), I am almost completely convinced that the cause is simply the habit of having to forget how to relax that is the cause. 

Negative thinking is a big part of it, including negative thoughts and worry about the impact of lack of deep sleep in my life. Woory that Im bound to end up with Akzeimer is not going to help, desperation that a pull or a mask over my face is going to sort it just like that either. 

I've embarked on a lifestyle change to how I approach life and very slowly learning to let go and 9 months on I'm starting to see the benefits. This week, for the first time, I've had 4 nights in a row of 15 to 20% DS which is amazing for me.

The only difference is changing my mindset from the constant 'I need, I must' to 'it doesn't matter'. Instead of rushing to track my sleep as soon as I wake up and despair of how I'm going to cope for the rest of the day because I only got 20mns of DS, confirming how I felt in the first place, I wait until I'm at work and in the throw of things and then tell myself that I had many days functioning on poor sleep yet managed to make it to the end of it without any disasters.

I strongly believe that poor sleep is due to our inability to shut down mentally and that is the result on years of mental bad habits. I also think some personalities are more prone to such issues, including control freaks like me who think my world will collapse if I don't have full control of everything that makes go round!

I'm in a better place than I've ever been and I'm now confident that my sleep patterns will continue to improve gradually as I continue to learn to let go. 

[aux]

Deep sleep is supposed to mostly happen during the first half of the night, but quite often I only get it in the second half. I do usually get enough of it - around an hour.

I think the fitbit graph is mostly correct in this. I've been using an app to record my snoring, and found out I do snore occasionally - often right around the time when fitbit shows I'm in deep sleep. Which makes sense to me. So it's probably correct.

Does anyone have any insights? I've had no luck trying to find more about the timing of deep sleep and what it means if it's late instead of early.

[billupsj]

I've never read that it matters whether one gets deep sleep in the first
half or the second half of the night. What seems to matter is getting
enough.

[alis0nm]

@Letmein . I'm curious to what changes you have made which helped you!  I have tried so many things.  My main issue is definitely stress and trying to quieten my racing mind when I waken up at night time.

I have worked all my life but this year for the first time after I was laid off in January I decided to take a short break - well it got extended to 11 months! And it was the best time of my life, even with my dwindling savings and money worries.  Sleepwise I went from getting between 10 minutes (yes, i know!) to 20 or 30 (on a good night) when I was working and stressed all the time, to 50min to OVER AN HOUR consistently (for me this is awesome!) when not working.  What a difference!  I am 53 and am just starting menopause (late bloomer) and I now waken up a lot more, but that's another story, so getting 8 hours of sleep a night is virtually impossible, even though I am in bed for 8.5 hours.  But deep sleep was hugely improved when I was not working.

I started work again 3 weeks ago and yep, deep sleep has gotten bad again.  10mins, 20 mins etc, although last night I got 55min - maybe due to a new sleep pill I just tried (melatonin and some organic stuff).  I really don't want to resort to pills though if I can, but I am beyond tired and need to get back on track.  Still last night I only got 6hours sleep, but feel good due to the amount of deep sleep I got.

So curious to what lifestyle changes you have made which have helped you.  

btw, I also started taking hemp CBD oil 6 months ago and I really think it did help with anxiety and caring less about not being able to sleep.  I just think that now with this new job, my mind is just learning too many new things and nothing is helping to quieten it.  I hope this will die down in a few months or better still weeks 🙂

[lennythek]

Stress is a killer and impacts all parts of our lives. I found regular exercise was my key to reducing stress.  I started walking every other day. Today, I walk 4 miles in 65 minutes. ( not bad for a 68 year old dude).   Key for me is no music, no phone calls, and I wak alone.   This gives me time to myself and to practice a type of moving meditation.    Regular moderate exercise has been reported to reduce incidence of Alzheimer’s as well.  So instead of watching yet another sitcom, grab your shoes and get outdoors.  good luck and Godspeed.  

[2000190521790]

Deep Sleep is my quest.  Since getting my Fitbit Oct. 18, 2018, I tallied my average as 39 min. (but some nights were as little as 9 min. !) As we all know, it's not how many hours we've slept, it's the amount of regenerating Deep Sleep we've actually had. 

I too, am quite active. I meditate, breathe, do yoga, stretching and jog 5 miles daily.  With regard to nutrition, I am a vegetarian, eat fish, no sugar, no gluten, no chocolate (as I can't be trusted to stick with the prescribed healthy 2 oz. of dark), take supplements including pre and pro-biotics,melatonin, ashwaganda, turmeric, D3, B complex and Nature Made "Sleep" before bed.  I sleep in a most comfortable, quiet, cool, dark room, with earplugs, and often without pj's, as recommended.  But sometimes, after not being able to fall back asleep after having to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, are 2 ibuprophens and an ounce of dry red wine. This is the only medicine I take and quite reluctantly and do not want to have to take.

I'm considering purchasing the DAVID light and sound machine to try and increase the Deep Sleep. 

If that doesn't work, I may try acupuncture. 

My concern are the overall ramifications of lack of enough Deep Sleep including susceptibility to dementia.

One further question is: How much Deep Sleep a 66 year old woman should get?  I've googled, but never get the answer. 

[writergal28]

I'm a 39 year old woman who more or less averages half an hour of deep sleep each night.  Not good.  I've had as little as 10 minutes! 😞 

According to Fitbit, my active minutes range from 90-160 (my workouts include barre, Essentrics, strength training and cardio (usually elliptical)) and I usually eat well.  Breakfast is either overnight oats and thawed frozen berries soaked in water with buffalo yogurt and cow kefir or berries, yogurt, kefir and Eziekiel cereal (no sweeteners/sugars added) during the week and lunch/dinner can depend.  Lunch usually involves salads with loads of greens (no romaine these days!!!) and a bit of protein (no dressings unless you count a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar + either avocado or EVOO for the fat) and dinners always involve protein and vegetables and a little grainy carbs (almost always whole grains).  I don't really avoid any foods and don't eat a lot of added sugars.  Life IS a little bit stressful - I just had a baby by surrogate (in other words, another woman carried my baby).  The baby is easy - he's relatively quiet and I have overnight help (so no need for me or my husband to get up to feed/change).  However, I really want to increase my deep sleep.  What I DO notice is this:  Most of the time, I sleep better on my days off from actual workouts.  Do I need MORE days off?

[ParallaxView]

You may find this interesting, since a decline in deep sleep and sleep quality is linked to Alzheimer's.  I'm worried my sleep issues may be an early Alzheimer's indicator.

There's a doctor named Dale Bredesen who claims to be able to treat Alzheimer's by treating the the causes of Alzheimer's rather than just going after the amyloid plaques.  He says they are the symptom of disease, rather than the cause of it.  I'm hoping if I follow his protocol I will be able to get more deep sleep.  One thing he recommends is fasting periodically and ketosis.  

I did a five day fast where I followed Valter Longo's recommendations a bit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGFWRXEzz8

https://smile.amazon.com/The-Longevity-Diet/dp/B07B79F6WV/ref=tmm_aud_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=15...

I only ate 750 to 800 calories a day.  I found on the third night I got almost 1.5 hours deep sleep, and on night 4 I got almost 2 hours.  I'm 47, so that was well over my range.  Unfortunately the benefits promptly went away, when I quit fasting.  I was eating a lot of high carbs for Thanksgiving though.  I'm gearing up to try a keto diet to see if I can get similar results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq7uVZ_0D3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrQyxWP-S2s

https://smile.amazon.com/End-Alzheimers-Programme-Cognitive-Dementia/dp/1785041223/ref=tmm_pap_swatc...

[Letmein]

alis0nm, you've come to the same conclusion than me, work is the culprit! It's not working per se but what it triggers. It's now all written for me. My worse nights tend to be Fridays, my nights Sundays. When I'm on holiday, I don't sleep great, but it's the first few days back at work that I will rediscover good sleep. 

I now know there are three triggers to getting little deep sleep. The main one is stress through anticipation. Menopause means anxiety and fretting about everything. I convince myself that my boss is not happy with my work and that my colleagues think I'm incompetent. I'm worried about how ill conduct myself in a meeting, how I'll manage a conversation etc... Of course, poor deep sleep mean that I'm less in control and so I worry more.

The other factor is rushing. It's always been in my nature to rush. I speak fast, type fast, drive fast, think fast. It has done me a lot of good in the past as I've accomplished a lot but I now need to learn to slow down. It's hard as going against my nature but I'm becoming more conscious of it. I am currently training myself to slow down, to the point of making myself walk very slow at home!

The last factor is conversations. I get very engrossed in conversations and I noticed I find it hard to shut my brain afterwards. I have many friends who I try to get together with one a one2one basis so I now try to limit how many friends I see over the weekend and avoid Friday evening get together. 

Last night, only got 20mns DS which is very bad for me. I knew it the moment I woke up. All the triggers were there, I went to a meeting 1:30 away with my boss, so constant conversations which I needed to concentrate on and I then had to drive another 1:30 after work in traffic to a hospital appointment. However much I tried to chill out after that, the damage was done for the day.

There has been a few posts mentioning a potential link between poor DS and alzeihmer disease and I really don't think that helps. Firstly, these are only few research, no official link has yet been demonstrated. Secondly, what triggers poor DS for most is some form of anxiety. Get anxious about the outcome of what we can't control is only going to make matters worse. I was speaking with my MIL last week. She's about to celebrate her 90yh birthday and her mind is as sharp as a 40yo. Her memory is amazing. She has always been a worrier and poor sleeper. So has my dad, only 75 so far, but no sign of dementia at all. 

My approach now is to try to improve what I can but if I have a bad night like last, I don't fret about it. I've had many before and I still always managed to make it through the end of it. I will today too despite an important meeting. I'll try my best not to rush, especially driving home after work when I'll be desperate to be home, I won't engaged in any conversation tonight and despite how I'll feel, I'll try to enjoy my day because that's the key to better deep sleep.

All in all, I now manage between 45 and 60 minutes a night but I've had 1:20 and even 1:30 DS in the past couple of months. Anything over 1h and I feel almost normal. Still some way to go make it most night, especially whilst still working as sadly quitting is not an option, but it's nice to know the triggers so I know what to focus on. 

[ParallaxView]

There is a link between deep sleep, sleep and Alzheimer's.  If you actually look at the information in my last post, there's a great deal that can be done about Alzheimer's, so if people ignore optimal health, that's at their own peril.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/01/04/460620606/lack-of-deep-sleep-may-set-the-stage-...

https://www.sleepfoundation.org/sleep-news/sleep-loss-precedes-alzheimers-symptoms

[alis0nm]

@Letmein . I totally agree!!  For people who don't sleep well and stress about it, all this talk of how this is going to cause Alzheimers is just adding fuel to the fire.  We can't control that.  A lot of my relatives have gotten Alzheimers and they did not live stressful lives at all so I'm not even going to think about that for now and just focus on doing the best I can to get good sleep.

I am like you and do everything fast, so I am trying to slow down.  Being an introvert by nature I really need a few hours daily just to recharge and recently that hasn't been happening. New job, long commute, kids, puppy, husband working evenings etc.  If I manage to get a few hours - or even just one hour alone time just reading,walking or meditating (or lets say trying to), it makes a huge difference to my stress levels.  I already live a very healthy lifestyle. I don't eat sugar, eat lots of fruit and veggies, exercise, yoga etc. I also do a lot of sleep hygiene: Sleep in a cool, dark room, kicked out the snoring husband, wear blue-light blocking glasses after dark, avoid electronics.  I do watch about 45 minutes of a good drama on TV a night, but that's it.  

Also regarding exercise.  I think moderate exercise is also key.  I used to workout a LOT.  Lots of weight training - P90x etc... and I slept terribly after and had lots of mind fog.  I think I was overtraining.  Doing moderate exercise keeps me fit and healthy but also not in recovery mode all the time.  

btw, last night I got 1hr 15mins of DS! Woo hoo!  I only slept for 6hr 23 mins - awake for 1hr 15min but I feel good today.  Going to bed earlier tonight to try for more sleep.  The sleep pill (3mg melonin with herbal supplements taken 3 hours before bed) i'm taking may be helping.  I will give it a day or two then stop taking it...  

[ParallaxView]

If you look into the material I posted, Dr. Dale Bredesen, has successfully treated people with Alzheimer's.  It is of particular interest to me because even though it has not been known to run in my family, my mother died from Alzheimer's at 62.

What Bredesen is saying, is Alzheimer's is not a specific disease in itself.  The plaques are the brain trying to deal with different stress factors.  People who are genetically inclined to get Alzheimer's are just not as good at fighting off these assaults.    He lists, (I'd believe 36) different factors that can cause Alzheimer's.  One of them, I'm already working on is hormone balance.  Since going on hormone replacement therapy, I went from 10 to 20 minutes of deep sleep to 30 to 60 minutes.  I'm still not out of the woods yet, but plan to screen for the potential issues to see if that clears up the problem.

What people should be outraged about, is Biogen Idec has received all kinds of news coverage for a vaccine they say is helping Alzheimer's, while Bredesen's work has not.  No pharmaceutical company stands to make billions from hormone replacement therapy, changing your diet, fasting, or eliminating toxins from your system.

[alis0nm]

Thanks for the information @ParallaxView.  I have not had time to look at all the articles you posted, but have read similar in other places.  I also agree about hormone replacement therapy.  My friend says it worked wonders for her. Unfortunately my doctor told me I couldn't try that until my period has stopped for a year and I am truly in menopause.  I have not had one since May so am half way there!  I may try to push it further with her as you often have to do with Doctors.

Thanks again!  

[Letmein]

This is interesting that 3 of us are going through the menopause. I used to sleep like a baby, never knew what poor sleep was even when I went through times of even much worse stressful time. I have no doubt that my sleep issues are linked with shift in hormones but I don't think it's a straight correlation, ie. Lower oestrogen = lower sleep. I think lower oestrogen and progesterone is increasing my anxiety levels and that is what is affecting my sleep. 

I'm confused why you've been told you can go on hrt because you still periods. Of course you can go on it before that, it just that you will also need progesterone at certain time of the month. You can't go on continuous progesterone until your periods have stripped for 2 years. HRT works very well for many women to help with their sleep. Sadly it didn't for me at all and if anything made it worse as I couldn't tolerate the progesterone part of the treatment. I tried it for 3 months and it was a huge relief to come off it (especially as I'd put on 7 pounds despite being extremely careful as I knew of its association with weight gain, I lost it all within 2 months after stopping). 

Not to make this thread about the menopause!, I discovered something interesting last today. Last night, I went for a 1:30 of hot and old stone massage. I had it before and its bliss, but never check potential impact on sleep. Went there quite stressed as I have my biggest deadline at work coming up. Well as always the massage was utter relaxation and despite nothing different otherwise, I went from 19mns DS the night before to my record, 1:39 minutes last night! 

I had vaguely noted the possible impact of physical tension on DS, indeed the reason why I always sleep better Sunday night when I had the weekend to physically relax. This was quite incredible! I think that's why gentle exercise help, but intense exercise possibly not so much. I think this anxiety business is also having quite an unconscious impact on my physical body making me very tense, including the brain. 

Sadly can't have such massage weekly as expensive but will look at having it at least once a month when I am the most tense. 

[2000190521790]

I'm happy to report that I got 51 minutes of Deep Sleep, last nite.
But I'm frustrated in knowing that in the 41 days since I've had the Fitbit,
35 of the recordings were after broken sleep and many of the days I'd
fallen asleep there was no data because it was under the time limit for
recording.
One of your team members told me that the dark blue areas on those nights,
were indeed, Deep Sleep. Is that true/accurate?
If it is, then I have been getting much more Deep Sleep than actually
recorded.

It is necessary for me to know, as I have auto-immune deficiencies and
really need recuperative sleep. (and of course, as we all are concerned, I
surely don't want to be a candidate for Alzheimers).
Going to a sleep lab for one night would not give me my every night
recordings
I'd thought about getting the Oura Ring. Anyone have any experience with
that?

I will add that I had a high carb dinner, last night.

[ParallaxView]

I don't know if you are in the US, but I would just getting a different doctor.  It has been my experience, some really suck.  My current doctor is okay.  I found him through the Stop the Thyroid Madness Yahoo group.  They have a website https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/  

Here are some good ways to find a doctor:

https://www.a4m.com/  

https://aofm.org/

https://www.ifm.org/find-a-practitioner/

My previous doctor was found through A4M (American Academy of AntiAging Medicine).  He was a great doctor, but crashed his airplane.  The one problem I found with that office, is a nurse practitioner prescribed hormone therapy while I was breastfeeding.  This was after my doctor was dead, so maybe he would have known better.  I guess they weren't used to treating aging women with infants.  I later found out breastfeeding lowers your estrogen, so that's important for any mother's with infants to keep in mind.  Prolactin drives down estrogen, and when you supplement with estrogen, it will drive down your prolactin, drying up your breast milk.  You can't have an optimal level of both at the same time.

Discover Magazine has written an article featuring Dale Bredesen's work on Alzheimer's http://discovermagazine.com/2018/dec/alzheimers-under-attack  

You may want to read this before buying his book.  If you don't already use Audible, you can get one book free http://a.co/0mX6GZK

[rockpool]

Super interesting article ParallaxView!

The result of this research is actually not surprising. Exactly the same advice is given to persons who want to avoid high blood pressure, diabetes 2, inflammation etc. What is good for us is good for us. I'll definitely buy the book!

And getting enough sleep is definitely one of the important issues.

[alis0nm]

Unfortunately I am in the Kaiser network so although I can change doctors,I think they have certain policies they have to follow - ie don't give any treatment if it costs money 😉 . Actually, kaiser has been great in lots of other ways.  I like that they don't prescribe antibiotics much any more and when I gave in and went to see someone about my depression and anxiety a few years (caused by stress) they told me to do more yoga.  Now I'm glad they didn't put me on meds...although I know some people need it.  I just managed to get through it on my own so in the end I guess it wasn't all that severe.  They have helped me a lot with my daughter who is ADHD and on the autism spectrum.  btw, this is also what cause my previous anxiety - when she got supspended from kindergarten!

Lot's going on in my life, but if I get a good nights sleep, I can cope with most things.  Hence my quest to find it.  I will now try to read the article you posted..... 😄

Alison

[Letmein]

Alison we might be on the opposite side of the Atlantic but we seem to have a lot in common! Like you however much I do believe in the benefits of medications, if I can avoid them by learning to do the right things for my body, I will take that route. 

The thing is that I strongly believe that's is not a case of improving our sleep to improve our e ery day life but the other way around. Thursday I was told by my cardiologist that I had clinical low blood pressure which explains a number of symptoms I experienced that I thought could also be due to poor sleep. I expect now it's a combination of both. I also now am facing a very stressful week with a massive report to write by end of next week and stuck in the stage of 'OMG what am I going to write', and do had to it got some bad news yesterday evening, so anxiety is firing all other and inevitably sleep quality is sleeping with 35mns both nights. 

It's OK though, there will be such times and a few bad night sleeps is not going to kill me. Accepting it is actually helping a bit. I am fortunate to be off for two weeks at Xmas so my focus is to get there and then I know that my relaxing during that time will see my DS increase again after a week or so. 

[SFaltafb]

Alison - there is a group named CHADD that supports parents of children diagnosed with ADHD and has annual conferences. I know people who have found it extremely helpful.

Sent from my iPhone