Deep Sleep and How to Get More

[WavyDavey]

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[Needweightlosst]

How do i get more deep sleep every night?

[RowdyRiley]

Dig a deeper hole?! Then you'll sleep deeper? j/k j/k. In all seriousness, some of us feel like there is not a better way... others have found very good help through this thread. I'm not a Dr. or anything, just fellow sufferer, but some of the considerations in this thread are:

• diet
• exercise
• light
• caffeine
• timing of each of these
• addition of supplements like melatonin or others either orally or on your skin
• sleep environment (temperature, noise volume and type)
• Sleep Apnea (large Neck Circumference is an indicator to test for this)
• Restless Leg Syndrome
• Other sleep issues
• Weight (Obesity)

Others ideas include taking time to distress before bed, like meditation or breathing, as well as the addition of pink noise

[LittlebrookLyn]

I can honestly say that nothing really changes how much deep sleep I get a night.  Yesterday I had a really busy day, did a lot of steps, was in a happy mood, went to bed tired but only got 21mins of deep sleep.  Occasionally I will get about an hour and 20mins but can never really work out any difference in what I have done during the daytime in relation to how much or how little deep sleep I get.

[Sue271]

I think there are a lot of factors that affect sleep so it is hard to point to a silver bullet -- for me two things made a difference -- switching to a swiss water decaf coffee and wearing glasses that block blue light (after 8pm)  that said I don't drink very often watch other potential sources of caffeine and don't have sleep apnea. I also try to eat foods that are rich in melatonin and I wear a sleep mask at night.  But it took me two months of careful logging of what was happening each day to figure out what made the difference for me.  Good luck!

[Sue271]

I should add that whether I meet my step goal has no impact (although that is important for other health issues)

[Jerimennifer]

I discovered something really interesting recently regarding deep sleep. I normally have about 45- 90 minutes of deep sleep, mostly continuously, sometime early in the night. But the few days before I get my period, it happens later, for less time and is more sporadic. One night last month right before getting my period a few days early, I didn't get even one minute of deep sleep, even though I slept for over seven hours. That caused me to look back at previous cycles and find this pattern. I know that progesterone levels drop drastically at the end of the cycle, and progesterone is pro-sleep, so I'm assuming that it is the decreased progesterone that is causing the disruption in deep sleep. I'm wondering if testing hormone levels and taking bioidentical progesterone if needed would be a good options for women who are short in deep sleep. 

[JenWood]

I have discovered a supplement called Femi Night which I get from amazon which has improved my deep sleep from an average of 10% to 19%. I’ve used magnesium and melatonin, but this is a lot better. I don’t even take the full dose.

[MrsGixxer]

I love this discussion about sleep.  I've always felt that people in general should be aware of their bodies and how they work.  This thread has been going on a while which is great!! I agree with so many of the deep sleep theories and am going to try some that I haven't tried in the past and reincorporate ones that just dropped off my radar.  I had been doing to good with my sleep I got lazy and now my deep sleep is almost non-existent, hence my visit here today!  

There are a few theories that resonate with me because I have also seen them in action.  Reducing stress and anxiety are at the top of the list for sure.  The less stressed I am when I go to sleep the better my sleep is.  And, the other big one is activity throughout the day.  If I go to bed good and tired I sleep so much better.  The more tired I am the deeper I sleep.  And the last one that really hits home is actually going to bed tired and not just because it is bedtime.  My struggle with that is that I want and need my 7-8 hours.  But lately I have been getting enough sleep, it just hasn't been refreshing, so I am going to wait until I am tired to go to bed.  

Thanks for all the great sleep ideas!! And WaveyDavey I'm going to be reading the items you cited.  Thanks for the resources!

[MrsGixxer]

I really like the idea about getting up and separating your sleep.  I'm going to try that the next time I am awake during the night.

[Mrssleepy]

I work in a job where I am walking and doing strenuous activity though 12 hours of the day and get well over the 10k steps but my deep sleep is still poor, so I’m sorry but I would have to disagree with this. I don’t have any trouble falling asleep, it’s the staying asleep that contributes to my poor sleep cycle. 

I take magnesium citrate and still nothing seems to help, still looking for a natural alternative to help me 😊

[amirl]

Hi
If you are reasonably comfortable doing you 12 hour work,you need not bother about the time of deep sleep.
We do not really understand much about sleep.So relax.

[Mrssleepy]

I wish I was comfortable, I drag myself through a 12 hr shift and come home exhausted. I have chronic fatigue so don’t really have trouble falling asleep but can’t stay asleep. My deep sleep is very poor, that is why I am looking at herbal and natural supplements to help with sleep I also use meditation, which at times helps me to drift off when I’ve woken in the night.

I have a fit bit so can track my sleep patterns and I thought they were poor but now have confirmation. That’s why I’m reading this post to look for ways to get a better sleep or deeper sleep. But thanks for the response 😊

[JenWood]

Hello,

Sorry to hear about your sleep. That sounds difficult. I started to use a herbal supplement called Femi Night available on Amazon and it has doubled my deep sleep where magnesium and melatonin failed. Worth a try?

Warmly,
Jen

Sent from my iPhone

[jaclin]

Do you mean a greater percentage of deep sleep or more minutes of deep sleep?

[JenWood]

A change from an average of 9% to 16%. Even after a few drinks this weekend!

Sent from my iPhone

[Jerimennifer]

Unfortunately, not available in the U.S.  I wonder if there's a comparable product?

[ShelaghG]

I started using FemiNight at the beginning of April and am starting to see an improvement in the amount of deep sleep. It's still a bit hit and miss, but the occasional poor night is fine, if the others are good. I started waking early 4 years ago. Since I started with the FemiNight I am waking around 5-ish, as usual, but often getting back to sleep for an hour, occasionally more.

I'd previously tried Ashwaghanda (reduces cortisol), melatonin, and Bimuno powder (a prebiotic), none of which made any difference for me.

[Mrssleepy]

I will have a look at this, got a few other herbal things to try, will let you know if anything helps thank you 

[JenWood]

That’s good to hear. I have tried all these other things too. Sometimes if I have a massage in the afternoon/evening I sleep very well too, which makes me thing it’s partly muscular tension that causes me to sleep more lightly and wake more easily. I often wake early but if my deep sleep is good enough then I’m sufficiently refreshed to cope with the day. I found a combination of doing the Sleepio programme (CBT for insomnia) and FemiNight has been the winning combination for me.

Sent from my iPhone

[JenWood]

Incidentally, I contacted the company that manufactures FemiNight yesterday
and asked them about supply to the US. They said that it's not available
yet as there is a lot of legal documentation to complete in order to supply
it, but they are planning to complete this if they think that there is a
market for the product. I hope this is helpful.