Deep Sleep and How to Get More

[WavyDavey]

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[Mothra53]

I’ve been doing a sunshine experiment, working on the premise that vitamins
D is important to sleep (and overall health), and armed with data that many
people don’t have enough—especially as they get older. Walking around
outside with just head and hands exposed isn’t enough to naturally boost
your vitamin D, from what I’ve read. So starting late last summer, I tried
to get 15 minutes of midday sun on my deck every sunny day, wearing a
bikini and exposing most of my 67-year-old body, front and back. Colder
weather came and I took a break until we got to Florida for the winter. Our
balcony is flooded with morning sun, super strong. Since I’m so fair, I’ve
decreased my exposure to 5 minutes each side at 9:30 in the morning. The
key is to NOT get tan, which is a sign of over-exposure and skin damage.

Amazingly enough, my sleep truly has improved. I used to consistently get
6-7 hours per night, often interrupted by bathroom breaks. Now I
consistently get 7 1/2 to 8 hours per night, and wake up less. It’s like my
bladder has grown! I seem to be sleeping better and longer.

[Ray94903]

@Mothra53  And what a pleasant way to do it! Thanks for sharing your experience. - Ray (CA)

[amirl]

It would be nice if you also  share the improvement in deep sleep if you have the data.

I have been doing this kind of experiment  and found both improvement in sleep, that is no bath room break, and good improvement in deep sleep

I just started it to get the benefit of morning  sun light and when I read your writeup I was able to link the benefit I had derived.

Thanks

Amirl

[Mothra53]

Hi, I haven’t had my Fitbit with me to track changes in deep sleep, but
starting next week I will. When I was tracking it, though, deep sleep was
rarely a problem. For me the problem was not sleeping as many hours as I
got older, and more interruptions during the night. But interesting to hear
that sunlight is helping you too!

[Linrab]

Thanks so much for this information. My sleep has been poor lately, 6 or 6
1/2 hours. I had a wellness check in January and my blood work showed
Vitamin D deficency. Since then I'm taking supplements. I will try what
you are doing and maybe sleep better.

[NatalieJ]

Same here ... only getting about 5 - 6 hours sleep ... had a checkup and am now finishing my prescription of vitamin D due to low result from blood work. I also need to sleep better.

Problem is when the house gets quiet late at night, I stay up to savor that quiet time. I recently read an article that people do this possible because during the day they are not doing what they love, don't feel they achieved anything during the day, or just not happy with what they did that day ... so they stay up to try to do SOMETHING that they enjoy before ending the day and starting that whole unhappy process over again the next day.

[Ray94903]

@NatalieJ  Maybe you can combine doing what you like to do with some of the techniques listed in the thread ending with something quiet like 10 minutes of meditation.

[Juliancole]

Hello. I've been trying to solve my sleep problem for a very long time. The reason for this was a nervous breakdown due to the death of his father. I could toss and turn all night and think endlessly about my loss. I could only sleep for a couple of hours at dawn. My friends were very concerned about my condition, at the sight of my bags under my eyes. And they gave me a taste of kratom https://amazingbotanicals.net/product-category/buy-kratom-powder/, which has a calming effect on the nervous system. I didn't even think it would work. Because the sedatives I was taking had stopped working. But the huge impact of the crater helped me to get rid of insomnia.

[Aismoc]

I really agree with the after family time. Yes quiet house. I catch up on
work for teaching next day. Have greater clarity and distraction.

[Letmein]

I've been battling insomnia for 5 years now with the after effects we know about. I managed to sort out my sleep hygiene about 80% of the time ie. I now usually fall asleep ok and have learned methods to get back to sleep quickly if I wake up in the night. What has remained the problem is not getting enough deep sleep, so I still wake up groggy, with a hangover feeling, and am shattered throughout the day, struggling to concentrate, have no get go and struggle to recover from any exercise.

I've undertaken a 6 weeks sleep programme and what I've learned us that my issue is stress. It made no sense to me because I'm under no stress. My life has never been so stress-free! However, I used to be under a lot if it for along time and my brain and body have not learned to adapt to my new stress free life and still act as if I'm about to be attacked. The menopause has contributed to that feeling as oestrogen and progesterone are calming hormones so the lack of it accentuate the fight or flight response.

I have therefore accepted that I need to recondition myself and my response to stress. I'm about to start a 6 weeks course of mindfulness and hope this will help me. 

Ultimately, as things stands, I'm stuck in a vicious cycle where the effect of quality sleep deprivatuin uscahsing be stress and stress is causing lack of deep sleep...

I'm what is referred as a type A personality, always rushing, wanting to do it all, always planning, thinking, analysing, wanting to give the best if myself at all time so learning to de-stress is certainly a challenge!

[Mothra53]

Hi, I feel for you...how very frustrating. Two things to try: Sunbathing
for 5-15 minutes per day, full body with no sun block, whenever possible to
naturally increase vitamin D; and Wim Hof breathing exercises, which are
very relaxing. If you can train yourself to breathe more deeply and slowly,
your body will slow down. Yoga is also very helpful for this.

[Linrab]

Thanks, I will try that.

[NatalieJ]

I like your ideas. Thanks for that. Is that what you do and it helped you?


Natalie R. Wilson-Jones, MBCP
Master Business Continuity Professional
"Failure is NOT an option...." (excerpt from movie, Apollo 13)

[NatalieJ]

You mentioned menopause ... have tried using progesterone cream to help balance the loss of natural progesterone? If you can balance that, then other issues may begin to subside. Look into it. I wish both of us well as we endeavor to get sleep (smiles!)

[Mothra53]

Hi, I do the sunbathing and I’ve noticed a difference. I don’t do the Hof
breathing techniques since my breathing is already slow and deep, and I
have a low resting heartbeat. According to 23&me, I’m genetically
programmed to need more deep sleep than average, and I get over 2 hours
some nights, with less-than-benchmark awake time for my age (67).

[ParallaxView]

I have a nickel allergy, so Kratom doesn't sound like a good idea.  That on top of the lead it may also contain. idea https://www.consumerlab.com/recalls/14283/dangerous-levels-of-lead-and-nickel-found-in-kratom-produc...

I would love to try Ambien / Stilnox / Zolpidem because it may even help with brain damage

https://youtu.be/ppwqMbcIuls

https://youtu.be/4kWKvDj3jD4

https://youtu.be/J4CG8DYkp9A

https://youtu.be/hC1_AsASWcA

I don't have a doctor who will prescribe it though.

[ParallaxView]

Have you considered hormone replacement therapy?  It sucks to be dependent on it, but I had horrible insomnia, and it helped a great deal.

[ParallaxView]

The Wim Hof breathing technique is about oxygenating your blood and making it alkali.  I don't think you can accomplish this through normal breathing.

https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ

https://youtu.be/bLj9s7xQk4I

[Nate.....]

Hello, I just joined this chat and I too have been studying deep sleep. This was wonderful information. Thanks a million.

[WilsonFitbit]

Hello everyone. Thanks for participating in the community forums and for the great inputs. 

@Nate..... Thanks for your positive feedback! I'd like to invite you to visit our Discussions board where you can share your experiences, meet people and create new topics.

I also invite you to visit this thread if you would like to introduce yourself 😁

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