SPO2 sensor on Ionic

[JAH67]

Part of the sales pitch for the Ionic watch was that it has multiple additional features that would come online after launch, including the ability to check blood oxygen levels. I've yet to find anything to do with it anywhere. Has anyone got any information when this stuff is going live or was it just marketing? 

Moderator edit: updated subject for clarity and word choice.

[Dragonpie]

Why won't they simply allow us to see an SpO2 reading if we'd like.  Yes, sleep apnea information is great, but plenty of people might enjoying having a basic SpO2 reading.  

[SunsetRunner]

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wrote:

Why won't they simply allow us to see an SpO2 reading if we'd like.  Yes, sleep apnea information is great, but plenty of people might enjoying having a basic SpO2 reading.  

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Let me consult the technical dept..

[waynepoynton]

When is it going to be turned on if at all?

[ccyoh]

Dear Fitbit,

This guy should be banned because he's pissing off all your real customers.  

[Deepfriar]

So has anyone picked up the phone lately and called Fitbit to ask about implementation of the spO2 sensor?

[SunsetRunner]

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@Deepfriarwrote:

So has anyone picked up the phone lately and called Fitbit to ask about implementation of the spO2 sensor?

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I notice this is your first post, pretty weird to spend time subscribing here just to ask this question when you could have simply picked up the phone yourself.

If this matters so much to you then why don't you give them a call, or are you expecting others to do it for you?  You may save yourself a call though if you read the thread(Hope this is useful).

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@MariamVwrote:

Hi everyone! 

This feature is not currently available. In the future, this sensor could give consumers the opportunity to identify potential health issues like sleep apnea. Fitbit is still exploring how this could manifest in the consumer experience and, such technology would use this sensor. 

Thanks for your understanding.

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[fluxx]

*deleted*

[waynepoynton]

Yes, this is from fitbit. As of the moment, this feature is not yet available. In the future, this sensor could give consumers the opportunity to identify potential health issues like sleep apnea. Fitbit is still exploring how this could manifest in the consumer experience and, such technology would use this sensor. 

[MattFitbit]

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@waynepoynton wrote:

Yes, this is from fitbit. As of the moment, this feature is not yet available. In the future, this sensor could give consumers the opportunity to identify potential health issues like sleep apnea. Fitbit is still exploring how this could manifest in the consumer experience and, such technology would use this sensor. 

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Hi all. 

Just wanted to jump in here to confirm that @waynepoynton's post is correct.

However, I do want to assure you that as more information becomes available, I will be sure to keep you all updated. 

Your understanding is truly appreciated! 

[Deepfriar]

@SunsetRunner:
Not sure why you are acting stand-offish, but I actually did read the entire thread. I know I could call myself but I didn't want to repeat someone's efforts if someone had already done it recently. Thank you for your reply though.

@MattFitbit:
Thanks for confirming that there is still no newer information.

[heathhathway]

Regulations? My Samsung phone has been capable of measuring SpO2 for years. Please stop speaking from a position of ignorance.   If somebody sells a sports car and states in a press release that it is capable of achieving speeds in excess of 250 mph, it is fraudulent to leave out the minor detail that you need to drop the car from a tall height to achieve such speeds.  To tell somebody that there is a SpO2 sensor but not disclose that it fails to perform any functions one would expect an SpO2 to perform, such as its only function, it is fraudulent.  I'll never understand why anyone would defend a company who intentionally deceives their customers.  If you work there, your dignity is for sale.  If you don't, you just gave it away.

[SunsetRunner]

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@Deepfriarwrote:

@SunsetRunner:
Not sure why you are acting stand-offish, but I actually did read the entire thread. I know I could call myself but I didn't want to repeat someone's efforts if someone had already done it recently. Thank you for your reply though.

@MattFitbit:
Thanks for confirming that there is still no newer information.

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Sorry but you didn't read the entire thread as what MattFitbit said has been repeated several times now before you posted, in fact I had just quoted it myself before. This has been quoted four or five times now... Yet here you are thanking as though it's new news.

@MariamV wrote:

Hi everyone! 

This feature is not currently available. In the future, this sensor could give consumers the opportunity to identify potential health issues like sleep apnea. Fitbit is still exploring how this could manifest in the consumer experience and, such technology would use this sensor. 

Thanks for your understanding.

[SunsetRunner]

@heathhathwayWhile I agree it is disappointing that after nearly 6 months this still isn't enabled.  And how I would rather it even just display it on the watch if it couldn't be recorded or used for other purposes yet than sit idle as a waste of hardware just driving up the price of the device.  I definitely wouldn't call it fraud.  Not because I wouldn't like to but because no where on the device packaging or the device's description on the site is the function mentioned.  Fitbit is not advertising this feature so it isn't fraud, and if they did advertise it with "Coming soon" the term soon is vague and still not fraud unless they discontinued the device without ever adding the feature.  The only place this has been advertised is in press releases and reviews which clearly state the hardware is there but not being enabled on the release of the device and Fitbit is working on it.  

That being said to repeat my previous statement.  I am perfectly fine if the information is simply displayed and not even recorded to the Fitbit app/site/database as that functionality will definitely take a lot longer to code into the backend, site, and app.  But enabling the functionality to even just display would not only make the hardware far less useless, but also enable other developers to take advantage of the data.  

[SunsetRunner]

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@heathhathwaywrote:

Regulations? My Samsung phone has been capable of measuring SpO2 for years. Please stop speaking from a position of ignorance.   If somebody sells a sports car and states in a press release that it is capable of achieving speeds in excess of 250 mph, it is fraudulent to leave out the minor detail that you need to drop the car from a tall height to achieve such speeds.  To tell somebody that there is a SpO2 sensor but not disclose that it fails to perform any functions one would expect an SpO2 to perform, such as its only function, it is fraudulent.  I'll never understand why anyone would defend a company who intentionally deceives their customers.  If you work there, your dignity is for sale.  If you don't, you just gave it away.

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Again please read the thread for full details and quotes. This was only being said in investors marketing material, NOT customers. Investors want to know what may happen in the distant future, that's what investors do.

The specs have never mentioned this. Fitbit's site never tried to sell the facility to customers. Your accusation that Fitbit are fraudsters is totally inaccurate and probably libelous. I would delete those accusations if I were you.

[bbarrera]

@SunsetRunner product press releases are primarily written for bloggers and other journalists (and not investors). When the Ionic launched they held a press conference, brought in journalists/bloggers, and talked about SpO2 including answering questions about it.

Agree with you that Fitbit is not advertising SpO2. It seems we may disagree in two areas:

- I suggest you reconsider calling the Ionic press release as "investor marketing material" because product press releases target media outlets (and not investors)

- given the primary target audience of journalists, Fitbit appears to have been ok with having SpO2 mentioned in reviews of the Ionic. Ethically that feels borderline to me, to you it may not, I think its safe to say that reasonable people can disagree.

I think people get confused, and think Fitbit is advertising SpO2, because they remember reading about SpO2 and Ionic in an online review (or watching a youtube review that mentioned it).

[SunsetRunner]

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@bbarrerawrote:

@SunsetRunner product press releases are primarily written for bloggers and other journalists (and not investors). When the Ionic launched they held a press conference, brought in journalists/bloggers, and talked about SpO2 including answering questions about it.

Agree with you that Fitbit is not advertising SpO2. It seems we may disagree in two areas:

- I suggest you reconsider calling the Ionic press release as "investor marketing material" because product press releases target media outlets (and not investors)

- given the primary target audience of journalists, Fitbit appears to have been ok with having SpO2 mentioned in reviews of the Ionic. Ethically that feels borderline to me, to you it may not, I think its safe to say that reasonable people can disagree.

I think people get confused, and think Fitbit is advertising SpO2, because they remember reading about SpO2 and Ionic in an online review (or watching a youtube review that mentioned it).

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Ummmm. Nope..

This is the URL of the press release, please read it before clicking.

https://investor.fitbit.com/press/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/Fitbit-Launches-Ionic-the-Ultimate-Health-and-Fitness-Smartwatch/default.aspx

Observe URL has the word "investor" in it. Clicking on it will take you to Fitbit's investor portal showing their share value at the top and the press release we are talking about. The whole website portal is an investor site (access the menu to see what I mean).

This URL has been posted here several times, and of course this proves you are incorrect in your assumptions. Of course I and others weren't assuming anything as it was clear where the press release came from.

[Deepfriar]

@SunsetRunner:
I know what the official response was originally because, like I said, I read the entire thread. The keyword in my post was "newer" with the -er (I was thanking MattFitbit for confirming there is no news that is new'er' than what had been stated earlier).

I'm sorry that you are making too many assumptions here lol but have a good evening anyway.

[bbarrera]

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@SunsetRunnerwrote:

Ummmm. Nope..

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@SunsetRunner Ummmm, yes.

Fitbit decided on a public launch of the Ionic for August 28. Fitbit invited the press to fly out for a private launch event the week before, on or about August 21st.

At the press launch event the journalists were handed a press kit (press release, product launch presentation, images, etc), under embargo, with everything needed to write news articles and blog entries on August 28. Company executives gave talks. Journalists ask questions to Fitbit execs. Journalists leave with an Ionic:

Source: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/08/fitbit-ionic-gps-smartwatch-all-the-details.html

Some well known sites and bloggers attended the pre-public press event, left with an Ionic and press kit (include embargoed press release), and wrote about SpO2 a week later on August 28:

https://mashable.com/2017/08/28/fitbit-ionic-smartwatch-hands-on/#pyARKst2piqT

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/8/28/16206914/fitbit-new-fitness-tracking-smartwatch-ionic

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/08/28/fitbit-ionic-debuts-athletes-smartwatch-runs-hard-killer-feature-set/

Here are some pics from the Alta press event held at Trump Hotel in NYC, from the DJ hired by Fitbit to play music at the event (the DCRainmaker review has one of the Aug 21 Ionic event):

http://www.djkanoya.com/blog/2016/fitbit-alta-product-launch-trump-hotel-soho-new-york-city

For whatever reason, Fitbit puts press kits under the investor.fitbit.com url. The url of Fitbit press kits doesn't prove my assumptions are wrong. The press kits exist to help journalists write articles. There is a reason they are called press kits. Inviting the press to fly out for an event a week before the public release Ionic information is designed to influence journalists, and have more positive articles written on the launch date. The press were handed Ionic's for review a full month before Fitbit allowed reviews to be published.

[SunsetRunner]

^^

Clearly living on cloud cookoo. Says press release was not intended for investors yet was downloadable on Fitbit investor website and language used on the press statement itself tailored towards investors.

The sensor was ONLY mentioned in the Fitbit investor press release (and note Fitbit are NOT responsible for third party sites and their reporting) so the rest is totally irrelevant, we are talking about the sensor here.

https://investor.fitbit.com/press/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/Fitbit-Launches-Ionic-th...

Here's an edit of the press release as nobody is bothering to read.

Forward-Looking Statements
This press release contains forward-looking statements, within the meaning of the safe harbor provisions
of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, that involve risks and uncertainties including,
among other things, statements regarding the future retail availability of Fitbit Ionic, including any special
edition devices and accessories, as well as the future availability of the Fitbit app software development
kit, Fitbit Studio, Fitbit App Gallery and available apps, and other product features described in this
release, including Fitbit Pay and the relative SpO2 sensor. These forward-looking statements are only
predictions and may differ materially from actual results due to a variety of factors, including the effects
of the highly competitive market in which we operate, including competition from much larger
technology companies; any inability to successfully develop and introduce new products, features, and
services or enhance existing products and services; product liability issues, security breaches or other
defects; and other factors discussed under the heading “Risk Factors” in our most recent report on
Form 10-Q filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. All forward-looking statements contained
herein are based on information available to us as of the date hereof and we do not assume any
obligation to update these statements as a result of new information or future events.

[OutOfTheBox]

I'd go beyond the ethically borderline judgment considering the results they achieved.

It is STILL being spoken about by press releases aimed at potential buyers as having the sensor.

Here is a review from Jan 26, 2018 stating that it is present and not stating that the software is missing.

Here is an article from the Malaysian launch event on Jan 30, 2018 that brags about it but is at least honest enough to say that they are still working on the software. That is still a sales pitch and an implicit indication that the feature WILL be made available in this device, not the next one.

This article also about the Malaysian launch less than three weeks ago mentions the SPO2 sensor in the first sentence and extensively throughout with NO indication it is not available.

And this article from February 8, 2018 quotes Sudhir Chowdhary, the Country General Manager of Fitbit India, as saying "In addition to this, we have also incorporated a new sensor—the SPO2 sensor. It is the blood oxygen level sensor. With this capability, users can measure blood oxygen levels." Note the present tense in "users can measure blood oxygen levels"!

These articles are trivial to find. All I did was search Google News for "fitbit ionic spo2". These were the first results. Any consumer researching the watch for purchase is going to be reading them. And the last one contains a direct quote from a major company executive less than two weeks ago!

Ethically, Fitbit should be contacting at least those writing articles that don't mention that the feature is not yet active and demanding retractions or corrections. It is too easy to do.

They are not doing so because they are enjoying the benefits of the confusion. I can't say that they intentionally fostered that confusion. I'm not a mind reader. But it is easy to see that they are making no effort to correct the confusion.