SPO2 sensor on Ionic

[JAH67]

Part of the sales pitch for the Ionic watch was that it has multiple additional features that would come online after launch, including the ability to check blood oxygen levels. I've yet to find anything to do with it anywhere. Has anyone got any information when this stuff is going live or was it just marketing? 

Moderator edit: updated subject for clarity and word choice.

[SunsetRunner]

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@OutOfTheBoxwrote:

I'd go beyond the ethically borderline judgment considering the results they achieved.

It is STILL being spoken about by press releases aimed at potential buyers as having the sensor.

Here is a review from Jan 26, 2018 stating that it is present and not stating that the software is missing.

Here is an article from the Malaysian launch event on Jan 30, 2018 that brags about it but is at least honest enough to say that they are still working on the software. That is still a sales pitch and an implicit indication that the feature WILL be made available in this device, not the next one.

This article also about the Malaysian launch less than three weeks ago mentions the SPO2 sensor in the first sentence and extensively throughout with NO indication it is not available.

And this article from February 8, 2018 quotes Sudhir Chowdhary, the Country General Manager of Fitbit India, as saying "In addition to this, we have also incorporated a new sensor—the SPO2 sensor. It is the blood oxygen level sensor. With this capability, users can measure blood oxygen levels." Note the present tense in "users can measure blood oxygen levels"!

These articles are trivial to find. All I did was search Google News for "fitbit ionic spo2". These were the first results. Any consumer researching the watch for purchase is going to be reading them. And the last one contains a direct quote from a major company executive less than two weeks ago!

Ethically, Fitbit should be contacting at least those writing articles that don't mention that the feature is not yet active and demanding retractions or corrections. It is too easy to do.

They are not doing so because they are enjoying the benefits of the confusion. I can't say that they intentionally fostered that confusion. I'm not a mind reader. But it is easy to see that they are making no effort to correct the confusion.

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@OutOfTheBoxwrote:

I'd go beyond the ethically borderline judgment considering the results they achieved.

It is STILL being spoken about by press releases aimed at potential buyers as having the sensor.

Here is a review from Jan 26, 2018 stating that it is present and not stating that the software is missing.

Here is an article from the Malaysian launch event on Jan 30, 2018 that brags about it but is at least honest enough to say that they are still working on the software. That is still a sales pitch and an implicit indication that the feature WILL be made available in this device, not the next one.

This article also about the Malaysian launch less than three weeks ago mentions the SPO2 sensor in the first sentence and extensively throughout with NO indication it is not available.

And this article from February 8, 2018 quotes Sudhir Chowdhary, the Country General Manager of Fitbit India, as saying "In addition to this, we have also incorporated a new sensor—the SPO2 sensor. It is the blood oxygen level sensor. With this capability, users can measure blood oxygen levels." Note the present tense in "users can measure blood oxygen levels"!

These articles are trivial to find. All I did was search Google News for "fitbit ionic spo2". These were the first results. Any consumer researching the watch for purchase is going to be reading them. And the last one contains a direct quote from a major company executive less than two weeks ago!

Ethically, Fitbit should be contacting at least those writing articles that don't mention that the feature is not yet active and demanding retractions or corrections. It is too easy to do.

They are not doing so because they are enjoying the benefits of the confusion. I can't say that they intentionally fostered that confusion. I'm not a mind reader. But it is easy to see that they are making no effort to correct the confusion.

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???

Fitbit aren't responsible for third party websites. The only time I would expect them to demand corrections is when they say something libelous, like being told they are lying for instance. If it matters that much to you I suggest you contact these websites yourself.

You've got to be kidding if you are expecting them to go around policing every single website that writes about them on the internet! Nobody has the time or the money for that.

[MaximL]

OutOfTheBox has summarised the problem quite well.

1. Fitbit has a press kit/release for the Ionic that mentions the SpO2 sensor in its first line and then states in legalese three pages later that it might not end up working.
2. A senior Fitbit employee is directly quoted in a media interview implying the Sp02 sensor already allows users to measure blood oxygen.
3. Fitbit won’t provide any guidance as to when, if ever, the sensor will actually work.

It’s unsurprising the SpO2 sensor is being misreported considering all of the above. Much of the blame for that lies with Fitbit.

[SunsetRunner]

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@MaximLwrote:

OutOfTheBox has summarised the problem quite well.

1. Fitbit has a press kit/release for the Ionic that mentions the SpO2 sensor in its first line and then states in legalese three pages later that it might not end up working.
2. A senior Fitbit employee is directly quoted in a media interview implying the Sp02 sensor already allows users to measure blood oxygen.
3. Fitbit won’t provide any guidance as to when, if ever, the sensor will actually work.

It’s unsurprising the SpO2 sensor is being misreported considering all of the above. Much of the blame for that lies with Fitbit.

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Paraphrasing without direct references means nothing.

1. Again quoting the investor press release I suspect (which has been discussed to death, clearly demonstrated this is an investor press release, and because it is discussing futures obviously they are speculating and covering their back wih opt outs.. URL and direct quote please?

2. URL and direct quote please.

3. That is correct.

The blame lies in people reading investor reports not understanding what they are imho.

[bbarrera]

@SunsetRunnerwrote:

Clearly living on cloud cookoo. Says press release was not intended for investors yet was downloadable on Fitbit investor website and language used on the press statement itself tailored towards investors.

No, its a leap in logic to claim the download location of the Ionic press kit means the press release is targeted at investors. 

I'll try and explain again, one last time.

1. Fitbit decided to include information in the August 28 about features not available at the time of pre-order.

2. Statements about the future create the risk of lawsuits from both customers and investors. In such lawsuits, a court could find Fitbit liable if predictions are deemed by a court to mislead a) buyers to purchase, or b) investors to trade stock.

3. Under USA securities law, Fitbit can reduce or eliminate liability from investor lawsuits by carefully writing Safe Harbor / Forward Looking Statements and including in press releases, product launch presentations, and related public materials. 

4. If Fitbit had simply written a press release about the Ionic as-is on pre-order, with no information about future features, there is no need for safe harbor / forward looking statements. That would mean an August 28 press release without information about SDK, Studio, App Gallery, Pay, SpO2, special edition, accessories, and certain retail availability predictions. 

Again, Fitbit made the decision to include info about future stuff in the press release. Fitbit could have written a press release about Ionic as-is, without safe harbor statements, for anyone pre-ordering on August 28.

[SunsetRunner]

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@bbarrerawrote:

 

Again, Fitbit made the decision to include info about future stuff in the press release. Fitbit could have written a press release about Ionic as-is, without safe harbor statements, for anyone pre-ordering on August 28.

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Please stop distracting by saying "press kit" and point to the exact URL where these statements are:

https://investor.fitbit.com/press/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/Fitbit-Launches-Ionic-th...

It was an INVESTOR press release, released on the Fitbit INVESTOR portal (see URL). INVESTORS need to know about futures, otherwise they are less likely to INVEST. What happens in the future is VITAL to INVESTORS. Disclaimers need to happen just in case they can't deliver, most INVESTORS expect this and estimate for themselves what sort of risk they are under given the info they are given.

[bbarrera]

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@SunsetRunnerwrote:

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Please stop distracting by saying "press kit" and point to the exact URL where these statements are:

https://investor.fitbit.com/press/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/Fitbit-Launches-Ionic-the-Ultimate-Health-and-Fitness-Smartwatch/default.aspx

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Yes, lets look at the url:

- //investor.fitbit.com/

- /press/

- /press-releases/

- /press-release-details/

- /2017/

- /long-name/default.aspx

1 reference to investor

3 references to press and/or press releases

Doesn't really get us anywhere, does it?

The Ionic release was a PRODUCT press release, part of a press kit, to support an August 21st press event, attended by journalists, designed to a) maximize media coverage of the Ionic and pre-ordering on August 28, and b) maximize Ionic reviews published on Sept 25. 

Press releases targeting INVESTORS are focused on financial results and future revenue guidance. Here is the Nov 2017 Q3 Results release that also includes Q4 guidance, the first full quarter that will include Ionic in results. In that release investors are invited to a live webcast where financial results will be discussed, and management answers questions from investors.

Fitbit couldn't be more clear in the different target audiences of the two press releases.

Lets just agree to disagree. 

[MaximL]

I find a considerable amount of irony in your post.

You argue that the problem isn’t Fitbit’s approach, but all the people who have misunderstood it or failed to look beyond the press release (including its own employees). But then you also just turn back to the press release and

prove unwilling to click

on the interview link to go beyond it!

This rather undermines your case that we might expect the average net denizen, including influencers and citizen journalists, to do a lot of research and read between the lines of p. 4 of a press release. 

If I Google ‘Fitbit ionic press release’ I come across a document as first hit mentioning the SpO2 sensor in its opening line (without an asterisk or clarifying footnote). If I read an interview by Fitbit with the media I come across the sensor presented as real rather than potential vapourware. If I read reviews or copies of the press release by those many individuals and journalists that act as Fitbit and me would expect them to act (most journalists are time

poor and spend a lot of time essentially

paraphrasing readily available information for their platform) I would also be mislead. 

Fitbit has acted in a way that had foreseeable consequences. And those consequences were that many have been mislead over the SpO2 sensor. Whether this is any sort of legal issue is not for this forum. That it is not a high standard to hold oneself to is not in doubt. 

[SunsetRunner]

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@bbarrerawrote:

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@SunsetRunnerwrote:

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Please stop distracting by saying "press kit" and point to the exact URL where these statements are:

https://investor.fitbit.com/press/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/Fitbit-Launches-Ionic-the-Ultimate-Health-and-Fitness-Smartwatch/default.aspx

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Yes, lets look at the url:

- //investor.fitbit.com/

- /press/

- /press-releases/

- /press-release-details/

- /2017/

- /long-name/default.aspx

1 reference to investor

3 references to press and/or press releases

Doesn't really get us anywhere, does it?

The Ionic release was a PRODUCT press release, part of a press kit, to support an August 21st press event, attended by journalists, designed to a) maximize media coverage of the Ionic and pre-ordering on August 28, and b) maximize Ionic reviews published on Sept 25. 

Press releases targeting INVESTORS are focused on financial results and future revenue guidance. Here is the Nov 2017 Q3 Results release that also includes Q4 guidance, the first full quarter that will include Ionic in results. In that release investors are invited to a live webcast where financial results will be discussed, and management answers questions from investors.

Fitbit couldn't be more clear in the different target audiences of the two press releases.

Lets just agree to disagree. 

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Just wow!!

investor.fitbit.com is the name of the website portal! The rest is the path name of the document and the name of the document (Standard ASP.NET) . I suggest you do some reading on why and how URL's are formed, here is a very basic article. You will need to do further reading..

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/advice/url-primer.html

Educate yourself!

[SunsetRunner]

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@MaximLwrote:

I find a considerable amount of irony in your post.

You argue that the problem isn’t Fitbit’s approach, but all the people who have misunderstood it or failed to look beyond the press release (including its own employees). But then you also just turn back to the press release and

prove unwilling to click

on the interview link to go beyond it!

This rather undermines your case that we might expect the average net denizen, including influencers and citizen journalists, to do a lot of research and read between the lines of p. 4 of a press release. 

If I Google ‘Fitbit ionic press release’ I come across a document as first hit mentioning the SpO2 sensor in its opening line (without an asterisk or clarifying footnote). If I read an interview by Fitbit with the media I come across the sensor presented as real rather than potential vapourware. If I read reviews or copies of the press release by those many individuals and journalists that act as Fitbit and me would expect them to act (most journalists are time

poor and spend a lot of time essentially

paraphrasing readily available information for their platform) I would also be mislead. 

Fitbit has acted in a way that had foreseeable consequences. And those consequences were that many have been mislead over the SpO2 sensor. Whether this is any sort of legal issue is not for this forum. That it is not a high standard to hold oneself to is not in doubt. 

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Once again Fitbit are not responsible for third party content. The document lives on the investor website investor.fitbit.com

Please understand how the internet works next time and how people quote sources. The original official source is all that is important. If you have issues with third party content, or in fact any content it is up to YOU to contact the website and tell them to correct it. You don't stand back and shout that somebody else is responsible when they are not.

Here is another tip. Never buy any tech gear until you have read the specs from the original website that is selling the goods or manufacturing it. Otherwise your fault if you get the wrong thing you can moan as much as you like.

Finally other people are not responsible for other people's stupidly or naivity. If you make a mistake that is YOUR life lesson. Educate yourself about researching what you buy and how to do it correctly.

Oh and another thing .. I never mentioned the word "approach". If you want to take issue with what I say please quote me, don't paraphase and bend what I say please.

[MaximL]

1. I don't live in a fantasy world where an individual, blogger or journalist Googles "fitbit ionic press release" or "fitbit ionic spo2", sees the press release we're discussing as the first result and then chooses to ignore it because they notice the word "investor" in the URL.
2. Actually, in most cases people/corporations ARE responsible for foreseeable consequences of their words and actions - legally and/or morally. Confusion about whether the Ionic has a working SpO2 sensor is pretty foreseeable given the evidence in this thread.
3. You are still conveniently ignoring the non-third-party words of Fitbit's Indian GM.
4. I agree that people should research their purchases. We've also shown that even with a little bit of research, people could have easily been mislead here. They presumably would expect more of Fitbit, even though you don't. We shouldn't have to treat Fitbit like a shonky used car salesman and spend an hour looking through all the fine print and various pieces of (conflicting) information to make a judgement call on whether the SpO2 sensor works or not.
5. Posting your reply on completelysensible.fitbit.com wouldn't make it so. Of a set of uncompelling arguments, the INVESTOR.fitbit.com one is the weakest I've seen.

[SunsetRunner]

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@MaximLwrote:

1. I don't live in a fantasy world where an individual, blogger or journalist Googles "fitbit ionic press release" or "fitbit ionic spo2", sees the press release we're discussing as the first result and then chooses to ignore it because they notice the word "investor" in the URL.
2. Actually, in most cases people/corporations ARE responsible for foreseeable consequences of their words and actions - legally and/or morally. Confusion about whether the Ionic has a working SpO2 sensor is pretty foreseeable given the evidence in this thread.
3. You are still conveniently ignoring the non-third-party words of Fitbit's Indian GM.
4. I agree that people should research their purchases. We've also shown that even with a little bit of research, people could have easily been mislead here. They presumably would expect more of Fitbit, even though you don't. We shouldn't have to treat Fitbit like a shonky used car salesman and spend an hour looking through all the fine print and various pieces of (conflicting) information to make a judgement call on whether the SpO2 sensor works or not.
5. Posting your reply on completelysensible.fitbit.com wouldn't make it so. Of a set of uncompelling arguments, the INVESTOR.fitbit.com one is the weakest I've seen.

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1. Again Fitbit is not responsible for what third parties write, no more than I am responsible for somebody putting words into my mouth by paraphasing.

2. I told you Fitbit are NOT responsible for what third party website write. If they write something on their own site then fair enough but you have been quoting third party websites that have simply been rewriting the original press release (poorly). The press release itself (NOT on a third party website) clearly shows this is a future, and you should read the opt outs I posted in bold earlier from that press release. Call it what you like but writing this means Fitbit are NOT misleading anybody (apart from people who aren't able to read). 

3. Apparently I am conveniently ignoring Fitbit's Indian GM. However you are ignoring me I have asked for a URL about this. Please supply because I have no idea what you are talking about.

5. The press release document is written in investorspeak. It is on the website investor.fitbit.com. This site that shows their share price at the top of the page. But apparently this is the weakest arguement you've seen that this is an investor document. Frankly I would keep taking the tablets.

[Kkjb]

Yeah so - when's the SpO2 coming out? 

You know you're losing in life when you're making excuses for firms like Fitbit! You want them to send you a free leather strap or something? 

Sp02? When? These things cost £5 on eBay from China. I can't believe the software is that complicated? Emitted red light.... Reflected red light... what is the difference... compare with reference values... estimation of 02. Done.

No excuses my lame excuse making friends - when is it going to be ready?

[SunsetRunner]

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@Kkjbwrote:

Yeah so - when's the SpO2 coming out? 

You know you're losing in life when you're making excuses for firms like Fitbit! You want them to send you a free leather strap or something? 

Sp02? When? These things cost £5 on eBay from China. I can't believe the software is that complicated? Emitted red light.... Reflected red light... what is the difference... compare with reference values... estimation of 02. Done.

No excuses my lame excuse making friends - when is it going to be ready?

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Learn to read the thread and stop looping the same old "are we there yet". An answer was given when this thread was created and was repeated just 4 or 5 days ago here.  You might not like the answer but it is an answer.

[bbarrera]

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@SunsetRunnerwrote:
Educate yourself! 

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Got it.

Its all about the name on the filing cabinet, not the content in the folder!!

ha ha, love your sense of humor. Thanks for entertaining us with your repartee 

[SunsetRunner]

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@bbarrerawrote:

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@SunsetRunnerwrote:
Educate yourself! 

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Got it.

Its all about the name on the filing cabinet, not the content in the folder!!

ha ha, love your sense of humor. Thanks for entertaining us with your repartee 

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^

I rang up Fitbit and they've said the made a mistake. They apologise and in future all investor press releases will not be on the investor.fitbit.com website, instead you can download them from youporn.com.

Specs will also no longer be available on Fitbit sales website, instead customers can simply assume what they are getting in future or use a fortune teller.

[MaximL]

On a quick Google, there are 500+ web pages that took the basics of the original press release including the Sp02 and published them. Fewer than 10 (new Google search) of these included the forward-looking statements which we know are the only part that clarifies references to the SpO2 sensor as 'may never eventuate'. This is not remarkable and is something Fitbit would have foreseen.

That is, Fitbit put out a press statement that any reasonable person could foresee would lead to misrepresentation of their product's capabilities. It also had its Indian GM directly mislead in this respect. And no, I'm not going to repeat the URL of this, because as someone once said: "learn to read the thread".

[OutOfTheBox]

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@SunsetRunnerwrote:

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3. Apparently I am conveniently ignoring Fitbit's Indian GM. However you are ignoring me I have asked for a URL about this. Please supply because I have no idea what you are talking about.

The link to the interview with Fitbit's Indian GM reported less than two weeks ago was clearly given in an earlier post. To repeat:

And this article from February 8, 2018 quotes Sudhir Chowdhary, the Country General Manager of Fitbit India, as saying "In addition to this, we have also incorporated a new sensor—the SPO2 sensor. It is the blood oxygen level sensor. With this capability, users can measure blood oxygen levels." Note the present tense in "users can measure blood oxygen levels"!

I would also note that this statement clearly says that users can actually get measurements, not just detect apnea.

[WavyDavey]

This thread is awesome, I'm cancelling Netflix.

[SunsetRunner]

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@MaximLwrote:

On a quick Google, there are 500+ web pages that took the basics of the original press release including the Sp02 and published them. Fewer than 10 (new Google search) of these included the forward-looking statements which we know are the only part that clarifies references to the SpO2 sensor as 'may never eventuate'. This is not remarkable and is something Fitbit would have foreseen.

That is, Fitbit put out a press statement that any reasonable person could foresee would lead to misrepresentation of their product's capabilities. It also had its Indian GM directly mislead in this respect. And no, I'm not going to repeat the URL of this, because as someone once said: "learn to read the thread".

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Have not looked at Indian GM yet.

I just did a Google asking if the end of the world is tomorrow there are literally thousands of results. From this we can all clearly conclude it is a fact because facts.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=the+end+of+the+world+is+tomorrow

[SunsetRunner]

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@MaximLwrote:

That is, Fitbit put out a press statement that any reasonable person could foresee would lead to misrepresentation of their product's capabilities.

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Absolutely right.

That's why they wrote this very clearly within the press statement.

Forward-Looking Statements
This press release contains forward-looking statements, within the meaning of the safe harbor provisions 
of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, that involve risks and uncertainties including, 
among other things, statements regarding the future retail availability of Fitbit Ionic, including any special 
edition devices and accessories, as well as the future availability of the Fitbit app software development 
kit, Fitbit Studio, Fitbit App Gallery and available apps, and other product features described in this 
release, including Fitbit Pay and the relative SpO2 sensor. These forward-looking statements are only 
predictions and may differ materially from actual results due to a variety of factors, including the effects 
of the highly competitive market in which we operate, including competition from much larger 
technology companies; any inability to successfully develop and introduce new products, features, and 
services or enhance existing products and services; product liability issues, security breaches or other 
defects; and other factors discussed under the heading “Risk Factors” in our most recent report on 
Form 10-Q filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. All forward-looking statements contained 
herein are based on information available to us as of the date hereof and we do not assume any 
obligation to update these statements as a result of new information or future events.

Learn to read press statements.

This is investor speak btw because IT IS AN INVESTOR PRESS RELEASE.