04-08-2014 10:16
04-08-2014 10:16
I've read a lot of forums across more than just the FitBit site that all say "it's as simple as burning more than you eat." Well, I do. I probably eat excessively one to two days per week but even then, I usually eat what I burn where all the other days I maintain a 100-700 calorie deficiency.
In December, I had some medical issues in play where I couldn't eat enough to not lose weight. Then suddenly, in the last week of January (so not over holidays or anything), my weight shot up by 16 pounds and has been moving up and down in an 8 pound range since then but never back down to where I was consistently from August to January.
You might think it is a new medicine I am on, but I have had this problem for years whenever I'm not on a medication that causes weight loss. You might think it is a thyroid issues, but apparently my standard thyroid test comes out perfect (although that doesn't mean the more in-depth test would).
Any ideas? It's incredibly depressing.
04-13-2014 19:44
04-13-2014 19:44
04-13-2014 19:50
04-13-2014 19:50
04-13-2014 19:54
04-13-2014 19:54
04-13-2014 20:13
04-13-2014 20:13
@Case13 wrote:
I did just have my thyroid tested. However, my doctor did just a basic test and not a full thyroid panel. The test she did showed that my thyroid is normal and she left it at that. But I have all the signs of a thyroid problem - hair loss, brittle nails, dry skin, water retention, etc. etc. etc. I asked her about it and she said it can't be the thyroid because we already tested it. Honestly, I'm wondering if the thyroid test was skewed my medicines I'm on that she hasn't really said anything about. I've had a thyroid test as part of a basic blood panel over the last 4 years now and it has nearly doubled 3 times in that 4 year span. Even if it is "normal," I would think that should be alarming enough for the doctor to perhaps look into.
So even on your medication you're not losing much weight? That doesn't sound fun.
Sorry I missed this.
Those are also all classic symptoms of undereating too greatly for your level of activity.
You can also cause yourself to have a thyroid problem by doing that for too long.
Studies have shown one of the first things the body can do if undereating too much, is slow down daily activity that otherwise would have been done. Then it slows down higher level metabolism functions, like the list you gave.
Because it's trying to conserve enough for the lower level functions that can't be slowed down that much at all.
04-13-2014 20:17
04-13-2014 20:17
@ChelseaMarti wrote:Hi there, one thing to consider is that as close as we can get to following the correct formulas on weigh loss and gain, and calories, at some point, genetics also come into play. As an example, I am among the most active of my friends. Some of my friends are completely inactive yet still thinner than me. Also, they don't seem to gain weight from food, however, despite being pretty active, I still gain weight. This runs in my family on my mom's side and in parts of my father's side. I think genetics play a big role in how you retain and gain and lose weight, I just don't know the science behind it.
Good luck!
Excellent point.
And the other genetic aspect, how fast does your body adapt up and down to levels of eating.
And what is the combined stress level it can deal with before adapting.
Some people can take a deficit that is reasonable. Someone else with same stats cannot, they must take less to see loss. Or eat soo far below to get a loss going again as to be unsustainable short or long term.
One study of brief overeating had metabolisms going up beyond just the energy to process the extra food, but the amount it went up varied by decent amount between the people.
So some got much more of a surplus out of the extra food, some got none.
04-13-2014 20:26
04-13-2014 20:26
@Case13 wrote:
I can perhaps reduce how much I eat in the evening. I still eat dinner 4-6 hours before bed but I just don't have the time or the stomach for eating a lot during the day. It leaves me super super super tired as makes me over eat at night if I do more than have a snack for lunch.
When you do this is it the high carb stufff you described as current lunch and snacks?
Ever done a bagel test? Eat a bagel from beyond 4 hrs past last meal. How fast until you get tired?
Or do you know you'll get tired already and don't need to test?
How fast does the tired come on?
That's an insulin over-reaction. Either too much at first, causing too much carbs to be stored away and not enough left to keep blood sugar high, or it doesn't drop the way it should, staying elevated longer. That's not good either way.
You should have protein and fat with every snack or meal. And likely you need to eat the protein and fat first, not the carbs first.
Your response to dinner is not good, hungry later again means low blood sugar, the insulin stayed around longer than it should have, causing low blood sugar.
Now, this doesn't effect the fact you are NOT in a deficit. You need to stop saying that because you aren't. No matter what you think the numbers say, you can't be, or you'd obviously be losing weight.
Until you accept the truth of what is happening, you'll probably keep thinking if you do the same things it'll eventually lead to different results.
What's that the definition of - doing the same thing expecting different results?
And you gained 1 lb how fast? If in 1 day, do you somehow think that could be anything but water weight.
04-13-2014 20:34
04-13-2014 20:34
@Case13 wrote:
So it's easy to think I have "killed my metabolism" but this thread seems to say that's not really a thing.
You haven't been reading very clearly or looking at references then, or you forgot. Either way, not good. Might reread and let it sink in.
http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/truth-about-metabolic-damage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A
Here's the 6 month study in full if you want to dig in to it, I thought I'd point out some tidbits. This at least shows you can recovery - if you are willing to accept where you are at. Compared to researchers above thinking it might last forever.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0004377
Participants had to be between BMI 25-30, overweight category, but healthy otherwise. They were excluded if they smoked, exercised more than twice a week, were pregnant, lactating or post-menopausal, had a history of obesity (BMI>32), diabetes, cardiovascular disease, eating disorders, psychological disorders, substance abuse or regularly used medications except for birth control. So that may have a bearing in comparison.
Diet was 55 / 15 / 30 for C / P / F.
CR (Calorie Restriction) was 25% deficit from TDEE, so not massive.
CR + EX (EXercise) was 12.5% deficit plus 12.5% calories burned in cardio exercise 5 x week, each session being 403-569 calories for 45-53 min (women and men difference).
LCD (Low Calorie Diet) was 890 cal/day until 15% of weight was loss, then back to maintenance calories by month 3, whatever it was then. That's a tad massive.
DEXA scans for body composition of LBM (Fat Free Mass (FFM)) and Fat Mass (FM).
Sedentary TDEE measurements in a metabolic chamber for 23 hrs.
SMR (Sleeping Metabolic Rate (BMR)) measured chunk of night no movement.
Several formulas related to measured Sedentary TDEE at baseline based on all available stats, to compare down the road when stats changed.
At 3 month check, sedentary TDEE had dropped by the following amounts, below what the formulas would have indicated for new measured LBM and FM, and SMR. In other words, it lowered the expected amount, and an additional...
CR - 371
CREX - 2
LCD - 496
At 6 month check, there was some recovery to be had, and reminder the LCD was at maintenance this entire time from 3-6 months...
CR - 209
CREX - 129 over expected
LCD - 275
So notice that even after 3 months maintenence level eating, the initial LCD group still had a TDEE 275 below what was expected for their current LBM and FM. Perhaps more time at maintenance it would have recovered?
The CR group slightly recovered, but still 209 lower than expected.
The CR+EX group actually had an increased TDEE.
Now that was Sedentary TDEE in the lab that was compared.
Daily TDEE with all activity was also compared to their SMR, TDEE/SMR for physical activity rate (PAR).
At month 3, CR and LCD had significant drops in PAR below what would have been expected for their current LBM and FM, by CR 350 and LCD 497, with CR-EX having none. At month 6, CR 215 and LCD 241, so again some recovery.
So the NEAT part of their day decreased as expected because of lower weight, but even more than expected because of less movement, resulting in lowered figures above.
So, that is how much their TDEE dropped along with their lower eating level and weight.
Now imagine during your weight loss, is your TDEE being lower going to help or hinder you for sticking to an eating level? May depend on how little you really want to eat.
They lost in total CR - 8.3, CR-EX - 8.4, LCD - 11.2.
So while the LCD did lose the most (in 3 months too compared to 6), their TDEE had only recovered from 496 to 275 below what it could be, perhaps more recovery was coming. So no wonder the first few months of maintenance could be the hardest, you have the most suppressed metabolism then.
And notice that even the great results of the CR-EX group, still meant 8.4 lbs in 6 months of dieting, with a 25% deficit in essence, 12.5 created by diet, with additional 12.5 by extra exercise. But no loss of TDEE, in fact increase, and mere decent level of cardio.
Other point to keep in mind - no more than 2 x exercise a week was being done prior - so they had a lot of room for improvement. No weight loss prior, so full burning metabolism. And in overweight range, not obese where these effects might not be so bad.
And realize it's not about eating so low, it's about creating so big of a deficit.
Perhaps you need to just eat 500 calories less right now.
Of course to keep losing, that eating level would have to lower down and down and down.
Can you keep eating that low and really reach goal weight?
What happens at maintenance then, with it being 500 cal below what it could be - will you succeed there?
04-13-2014 21:31
04-13-2014 21:31
@Case13 wrote:
So my current lifestyle, most days is to wake, have coffee with creamer and then eat a snack of vegetables in the afternoon. By 7 or 8pm I have a fairly balanced dinner that's Approx 800 calories and then go to bed between 12am and 2am.
Does this mean my body is in a starving mode all day and then storing everything to fat at night because I am not moving after dinner?
Also, in response to your suggestion to eat 250 more (so at a 250 deficit rather than 500... Right? That's how I understood it) and see if I gain or lose... I was relaying this to my boyfriend and talking about what you had said about glucosamine levels. One thing I had forgotten that this last August through January I was on glucosamine pills, daily.
During this time I was losing weight and was at a weight that was previously most familiar to me. I don't know if any of that attributes to the glucosamine. I was also on some other medications at almost the exact same timing.
You have a 500 cal deficit right now?
You are losing weight at 1 lb weekly?
I didn't think so.
I said to eat 250 more daily than you are eating right now on average for 2 weeks.
If current eating level was really your potential maintenance (because you lost no weight eating there) - you would gain 1 lb slowly over 2 weeks.
If current eating level was NOT your potential maintenance - you will gain more and/or faster water weight in a few days.
That proves prior eating level was NOT potential maintenance, but suppressed maintenance.
It takes 72 hrs of NO eating for your body to enter a starving mode situation. Your body has no problem with a mini-fast through part of the day. No you are not storing everything as fat.
But - you undereating more than your body wants on a constant basis - yes you will get the exact same responses from the body as starving mode. Read the links in other post I put up again.
Please reread some prior posts on what your body does after eating, don't feel like repeating yet again.
And I said glycogen, as in glucose, as in carbs, as in sugar. Not glucosamine, for the joints and their health.
04-14-2014 04:34
04-14-2014 04:34
if you can, try to change the life style and most probably you will get result
wake up 06-07:00 morning aerobic
08:00 good breakfast, you can eat carbohydrate(cereal ..)
12:00 good lunch,you can eat carbohydrate (rice, pasta etc..)according AYUREVEDA between 10-14:00 is the best time to digest a meal because the digestive fire is at max, afterward walking
16:00 snack /light meal no carbohydrate
19-20:00 light meal no carbohydrate, after light walking
23:00 sleep
04-14-2014 05:26
04-14-2014 05:26
Hi Case13, this is my first time posting EVER as I am totally new to FitBit. Your situation tugged at my heartstrings. How horribly frustrating for you. My immediate thought, after reading your posts, is that you're putting your body into starvation mode and overthinking everything. So maybe letting yourself go on "auto-pilot" is the healthiest strategy for you right now. What if you just snap a photo of what you're eating as you go through the day, instead of tediously writing it all down. Then, if you WANT to know later what you ate, you have the ability to look at it. However, you'll be freed of the hassle, time, and calculation stress of logging every calorie. The most important thing you can do right now, I think, is just HAVE FUN and celebrate the new spring season. Put a spring in your step 😉
04-15-2014 13:32
04-15-2014 13:32
04-15-2014 13:41
04-15-2014 13:41
04-15-2014 14:10
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04-15-2014 14:14
04-15-2014 14:14
04-15-2014 14:21
04-15-2014 14:21
04-15-2014 15:56
04-15-2014 15:56
Not during this 2 week test.
You start lifting and you will retain water, throwing off the test. Keep all routines the same.
And you are eating more - 250 more than suppressed maintenance right now.
That you have gained yet shocks me, I didn't think your metabolism would respond that quickly.
@Case13 wrote:
I boosted my calories up by 250 (so only a 250 deficit per day now) and started taking the glucosamine pills in the morning again. I already feel like I've lost a bit of water weight although the number on the scale hasn't changed at all.
So do you suggest the weight training you previously listed and eating a bit more as I am doing to get my metabolism back in better function?
You've helped me learn so much! Sorry I'm not all the way there yet but I thank you a million times over for your time.
04-15-2014 16:01
04-15-2014 16:01
@Case13 wrote:
My dinners consist usually of some kind of meat - a chicken, small steak, lamb, mini burger - with a huge side of vegetables. Sometime I will have pasta with vegetables mixed in... or soup, same. But most of my dinners are some kind of meet and two cups of fresh green beans. I know that vegetables have a lot of carbs even if I'm not stuffing myself with dinner rolls. I rarely add bread to any meal. Likewise, I've never done the bagel test because I can honestly say I eat probably four bagels a year. It is hard to do any sort of test like that since I have narcolepsy, any high carb load or high sugar load will run me into the ground fairly quickly. I would say, on average, with a heavy meal of any kind - 90 minutes later, I'm ready for a nap. Still, it's hard to say that has much of anything to do with the food. While many people with narcolepsy watch carbs and sugar to keep from getting too tired, I am also very active. On days I eat a lot of carbs, I also walk closer to 10 miles than 5 miles on those days and am far more socially active. Those aspects alone make me tired.
What are some of your favorite proteins and fats?
Chicken being low fat allows you to add in your own healthy fats like almonds or such. But fish is good for both too.
A high carb meal causing tiredness happens to many people, as I mentioned, over response of insulin.
And meals too big cause that too, even if you did a great balance of protein, fat, and carbs - if enough calories insulin can still overshoot what was really needed, causing low blood sugar. At least it means that system for clearing out blood sugar and keeping it low is working - too good actually.
So in your case having meals 400 calories or less might work better, along with mix of protein and fat eaten first, carbs last. Still don't need to eat every 2 hrs or such. But allow that 4-5 hrs between meals and snacks to hit your goal.
04-15-2014 16:13 - edited 04-15-2014 16:43
04-15-2014 16:13 - edited 04-15-2014 16:43
Because for too long you underate too much for amount of activity - you forced your system slower.
What does Fitbit say your TDEE is?
And did you manually add any non-step based activity it is underestimating?
So there's the rub, your walking along with big deficit caused the same issue it appears.
The perspective is eating less than TDEE, but since you are only walking compared to what article said doing more and more exercise, you'll be eating less.
But other study I listed showed eating at maintenance also allowed recovery to occur.
His method is just remove the stress of the big amounts of exercise, and keep minor stress of a small diet and good exercise.
But you have no big amounts of exercise to remove, so need to keep the walking. So your stress removal is any diet.
And that's a diet from potential TDEE he's talking about. Obviously at that point he's been talking about the same effect you have - there is no loss, obviously you are eating at TDEE, suppressed TDEE.
Your body probably hasn't seen for a long time a potential TDEE. You need to get up there first.
Which is what eating 250 more daily is doing. Hopefully getting your metabolism to increase to potential. And it may even be higher than 250.
Then you'll take a reasonable deficit for your amount of activity.
So you do need to meet that goal by logging and eating more than what seems ordinary.
-----------------------
@Case13 wrote:
I guess one aspect that is confusing to me as that I'm not at a deficit, despite FitBit thinking I am simply because I'm not losing weight. But many signs point to me under-eating. How can I not be at a deficit but under-eating at the same time? I've watched the video, read the medical studies, etc. I can understand a slowing metabolism. I just mean, up front and on the surface the difference between deficit and under-eating in this case?
04-15-2014 17:12
04-15-2014 17:12
Do not rely upon FitBit to tell you how many calories you should be eating every day.
Start from scratch - determine your true BMR and start from there. BMR is unique to every individual, it is best if you get an accurate BMR from a dietician, but if your insurance does not cover dietition, then do it yourself by going to my fitness pal: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/tools/bmr-calculator
This calculator will tell you how many calories you should be eating every day, it will factor in your weight, age, and height. It is not perfect, but it is better than fitbit.
Next: re-do your weekly menu. Eat within your BMR, and spread out thouse calories to 4-5 meals per day. Start consuming as much protein as you can in the morning: egg white omelette is the best. Cut out all diet soda. Diet soda will NOT help you keep the weight down. It triggers an insulin response which triggers fat storage. I repeat - DO NOT DRINK DIET SODA.
Weigh yourself once a week. This is about lifestyle changes that lead to permanent weight loss, this is not about being obsessed with your weight. Weigh yourself once a week and Put the Scale in the Closet! Do not touch it for 7 days. Think of it this way, every week you will have something to look forward to.
Start logging in your calories and make it public. That extra level of transparency will make you think twice before you eat something because you will know the world will see it.
Finally, ever watch House MD? "Everybody lies" I can say the biggest liars are people who claim to be eating within thier calorie range. The fact is, most of them do not know how many calories are in the foods they are eating. If you really want to keep the weight off, get offline and go to the library. Check out some books on nutrition and read them fom cover to cover. Apply what you learn in the books.
Finally - do resistance training and weight lifting as a sport.
If you follow my advice, the fat will come off slowly and stay off. On a final note, I highly doubt any medication is making you gain weight. If you are gaining weight, it is because you are doing something wrong. Fix the problem by being honest with yourself about what you are eating. The biggest mistake people make would be to blame circumstance (things beyond their control) for their obesity. Defense mechanisms and excuses are your worst enemy. Kill those, and you will succeed.
04-16-2014 11:44
04-16-2014 11:44