Calories In vs Out

[LeanMachine]

So i am a 33 male 6'0 265lbs and 190lbs lean mass. (Very active and stubborn to do more then i should). My goal is 215lbs with 10% body fat, to be flexible, a runner and very strong. Have been on and off training for past 12 years.

Now i am on a major deficit. My current training includes:

Jogging - Some days 4.5km and some 8.5km (will be increasing to 10km in 2 weeks) this is done 5 days a week.

P90X - 6 days a week.

Currently my calorie in is 1950 - 2050, yet calorie out is over 4000. (I eat quality foods, no junk or garbage, i cut EVERYTHING off, been doing it for years so i understand the bounce back which is not of question this time around)

I supplement with Shakeology / Protein Shake / Protein Bar / Pre-workout + Creatine / Thermogenic / L-Carnitine and CLA + Multivitamins and extra B vitamins. I am hitting all my daily nutrient needs.

My question is: Being over 2000 calorie in deficit, would it be in any way detrimental to my goals?

Hunger is not an issue as the Thermogenic and Shakeology have properties to suppress hunger.

At what point would you start increasing calorie intake? 240lbs? 250lbs?

I am currently dropping with 2.7lbs a week  (only 2 days of the week is a 2000+ deficit, the others are all between 1200 - 1500)

[SunsetRunner]

Unless you're a weight lifter / body builder, your weight and Lean Body Mass don't make sense.

At your height, an accomplished aerobic athlete (runner) would weigh about 160 lb. at about 10%

Body Fat (and about 172 lb., at about 16% Body Fat, for a "citizen class runner" running 5 km).

Based on 172 lb., the calorie intake would/should be about 1,750 cal./day to maintain that weight,

and is the level of calories you would consume, letting exercise calories facilitate the weight loss.

Once you get to your desired body weight, you would eat 1,750 plus exercise cal./day.

[LeanMachine]

yarddog - i've been training on and off for the past 12 years. I used to be consistent going twice a day. 

Currently i am at 29.2% body fat and 265lbs.

I have no issues sprinting / jogging / push ups (one handed / Plyo push ups / Super man push ups / even yoga/ i can do Scissors for abs, V ups but pull ups i can't do without them being assisted. (just to give you an idea of my activity level). I think you are picturing me at 265 and just starting out training with no base build. My problem is i have too much fat covering everything, which i am trying to get rid of. 

The goal is to be around 215lbs and 10% body fat.

To be even more flexible

To be able to run 10km under 1 hour (current time is 1 hour 23 minutes)

160lbs is WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY too skinny for me.

Back to the main question: Here is an example for my today's count.

I did 30 min Yoga + 8.22km run and my daily calorie burn = currently Calorie out is at 4323 (and i have 2.5 hours left for end of the day). Now my intake is only at 1934 calories today.

Should i be eating at 3200 cal range? or stay at my current cal intake until i reach desired weight?

Possibly increase cal intake once i lose 20 - 30 lbs

[SunsetRunner]

At 265 lb., your body fat is 45.7%, unless you are very heavily muscled. At 215 lb., your body fat

is 33.0%, unless you are very heavily muscled. Don't know how you determined your body fat %.

If you want to be 215 lb., then you should eat 1,900 to 2,000 cal./day plus exercise calories, but

(for now) eat the 2,000 cal./day only, and add in the exercise calories when weight is reached.

[SunsetRunner]

Here is an Ideal Weight Calculator, with refference to several experts.

http://www.calculator.net/ideal-weight-calculator.html

[LeanMachine]

Ah you're basing it off of IDEAL weight, regarding your calculation for BF%. Each person is different and you can't base it off of ideal weight.

I would never want to be lower then 205 - 215

[SunsetRunner]

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@LeanMachine wrote:

Ah you're basing it off of IDEAL weight, regarding your calculation for BF%. Each person is different and you can't base it off of ideal weight.

I would never want to be lower then 205 - 215

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Yes, we can base it on "ideal weight", because that's what's ideal.

Yes, each person is different, and each person may want a different objective.

You are perfectly entitled to your different personal objective.

Still don't understand how you determined your body fat %.

[LeanMachine]

I went to a gym, and did a Bioelectrical impedance analysis machine thingy.

[SunsetRunner]

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@LeanMachine wrote:

I went to a gym, and did a Bioelectrical impedance analysis machine thingy.

---

They can be (and usually are) very inaccurate.

Drinking, eating, machine calibration, testing protocol, etc.

Here are some explanatory article:

http://www.formulamedical.com/formula%20for%20life/measurement&diaries/BIA.htm

http://www.formulamedical.com/formula%20for%20life/measurement&diaries/BIA%20test%20preparation.htm

[DominicJ]

BIA is a pretty poor method of getting a fat %age,

I dont often agree with Yard Dog, but your desired numbers would be high if you were a serious weight lifter, and you arent.

I'm 5ft 6 and my cutting target is down to 140 from 170 right now

And I lift weights, I press 40-50kg which is half my current weight, stuff like lat pull downs I'm near full body weight.

[LeanMachine]

To give you an idea, i have no issues pressing over 90kg's, lat pull downs i do the entire rack but i am working on shredding atm. I don't know how this turned from Calorie deficiency to me defending myself on bf% and my ability to lift weight lol

[Heybales]

I'd suggest drop the first 10 lbs with the unreasonable deficit, then get it back in line.

Your stated goals can't be accomplished with an extreme deficit.

Something will break down, and you won't enjoy the consequences later.

Shoot, only 50 lbs to lose in the first place, 750 cal deficit is reasonable at that point.

At 30 lbs, go to 500 cal deficit.

15 lbs, 250 deficit.

You are/will badly impair your ability to recover, and repair, and rebuild.

And if you can't do that, your workouts are really waste of time as far as what they could do - just go out and run and burn calories in that case.

Be realistic with diet too, far too many start defining foods and that only lasts during the diet - then they start eating stuff they cut out and overeat and go nuts.

Better to learn to adhere with reasonable portions what you do enjoy now, since there may be less in the future.

Because you should already be dropping between 3-4 lbs weekly if it was all fat weight, which I'm doubting.

Make a deficit extreme enough, you will lose muscle mass. Least used first not built back.

And losing muscle throws the normal equations off.

Or your body slows down to compensate for the craziness it's being given, which would also explain losing so little compared to huge deficit.

I'd suggest you keep your healthy body though, and see the weight loss to the end, with only fat loss and reasonable deficit.

Don't make it unhealthy, lose muscle also, and have difficulty with reaching goal weight with unreasonable deficit.

[LeanMachine]

My starting weight was 271.2lbs (2 weeks ago today). This morning, i weighted in @ 263.2lbs (so i am losing 4 lbs a week).

So you feel i should add more Calorie to my diet? I don't want to stop jogging or stop my workouts, i did slow it down a bit though (it was more intense then what i am writing now)

My jogging is Mon 4.5km / Wed 9km / Fri 4.5km / Sat 9km / Sun 4.5km (but this increases each week)

Workouts are Mon Abs /Chest + Back / Wedneday Plyometrics / Thur Abs + Shoulders and Arms + 30min Yoga / Frid Legs and Back + Abs

Here is my past 5 days.

June 18th: deficit = 1245 calories

Eaten - 1999 calories

Burned - 3244.05 calories

June 19th: deficit = 1912 calories

Eaten - 2050 calories

Burned - 3962 calories

June 20th: deficit = 2672 calories

Eaten - 1934 calories

Burned - 4606 calories

June 21st: deficit = 2001 calories

Eaten - 2115 calories

Burned - 4116 calories

June 22nd: deficit = 3578 calories (i did 5km run / AbRipperX + Chest and Back of P90X + worked all day (i am on my feet walking up and down stairs and around areas of dealerships) + walked dogs for 15 kms almost)

Eaten - 1774 calories

Burned - 5352 calories

As for diets, i have no issues controlling my hunger, i control my cravings and when they get too much i give in very little (like i'll throw in some extra carbs, not always 40p/40c/20f macros). Once a month i'll give in and have a lb of wings with the boys. I cut out all bread / rice / pasta / all dairy(for now). (yes no pizza for me 😞 not until next year at least.

What if let's say i do this (how does it sound? i am very bad with proper nutrition i either over do it or don't do it enough, can't find the balance).

255lbs - Increase my intake to 2300 calories

245lbs - Increase intake to 2400 calories

235lbs - Increase intake to 2500 calories (and this at this amount until i reach my desired goal of 215lbs)

it will be hard to injest 250g of protein / 250g of carbs and 56g of fat

Thank you for the reply Heybales, some people mentioned your name and for me to ask you.

[Kragger]

Eventually I think your issue is going to be fatigue and lack of energy and not hunger.

There is also a real possibility of aggressive muscle loss at a deficit higher than a 2lb/week weight loss.

It is good that you are continuing to lift during your loss, this will offset some of your muscle loss but if you continue to eat at your deficit, you will lose a good bit of muscle along the way.

Weight loss should not be a fast journey, particularly if you are interested in staying at your new lean weight.  Weight loss should be a permanent and methodical journey.  If you continue as you are, I reiterate, you will lose appreciable muscle mass, and you will eventually, probably sooner rather than later, hit an energy wall which will cause out to either give up and eat like a horse or quit working out.

[LeanMachine]

Don't get me wrong, i am not looking for a faster route to losing the weight. Just the most efficient. I listen to my body, today i am completely exhausted. I am not jogging or training,  did work all day though. So intake will be roughly 2200 - 2300 today, and burn will be just over 3k. Yet tomorrow will be a rough one, i have 1 hour of Plyometrics in the morning (i can easily burn 1200 cals just from that alone). Very busy schedule for work (i install 3M Paint Protection Film on vehicles for local dealerships, my own business, and tomorrow is fully booked) I will be squating then standing repeatedly all day. When i get home i have 9km jog, then walk my dogs for a few km.

I see what you're saying though, fatigue might catch up to me sooner then later. I am trying to find a way to avoid that and be efficient with weight loss while keeping my muscle mass, i am ok with losing let's say 5lbs - 10lbs of lean mass by the time i am 215lbs, i grow fast but cut down very slow.  Main goal is to lose this **ahem** tummy and I am supplementing with this though:

**The Thermogenic and CLA + L-carnitine + Creatine is a one time deal, i am getting off of them.

Animal Performance - Multi Vitamin stack

C4 - Pre-workout   (Only on heavy lifting workout days)

Dymatize - Protein powder (daily)

Quest - Protein Bars  (My snacks)

Quest - Protein Chips (My snacks)

AllMax - Pure creatine monohydrate (cycled)

MusclePharm - BCAA's (only when i know i will be extremely sore)

Cellucor - CLA + L-Carnitine (this i am getting off once this bottle is done)

Thermogenic (this i am getting off once this bottle is done)

Extra Niacin

Extra B vitamins

Shakeology

[Heybales]

Young and male is going to help you out to a certain extent - good genes will too.

But that just means your potential for improvements without the extreme deficit would be even better.

Since you have no means of comparing - you really have no idea what you are missing out on.

The only thing that might be saving you is that you don't actually have that big of a deficit - because your calories burned is inaccurate.

And/or logging food accuracy, you could be eating more than you think, which would be helping you at this point.

But I doubt it since the weight loss is still so great.

I would suggest not starting out eating levels based on going up from some unknown amount - but rather taking less and less deficit from whatever you do burn according to Fitbit, with corrections to exercise it's not good at. Like weight lifting.

If you do best with an eating goal that is static every day - then use a running 3 week average of calories burned according to Fitbit, and take the deficit off that, eating the same amount daily.

Protein goal based on % is difficult and unneeded. If no liver or money issues there is no harm, but past a certain point there is no benefit for weight loss or muscle retain.

0.82 g per lb of bodyweight is failsafe upper max needed, even less than that would be fine, like 0.7-0.8.

But based on %, like 30%, then it increases way more than needed as eating level goes up.

So with 50lbs to go, you could use the Fitbit system and just select a 750 cal deficit, and meet your daily changing goal. At 30 lbs, change to 500, at last 15, to 250 deficit.

Or if going by static and that average daily burn (TDEE), just knock 20% off.

At 30 lbs left to go, change to 15% off.

At 15 lbs left, 10% off.

[LeanMachine · Accepted solution]

@Heybales you were right, i felt a bit sluggish at end of the week last week and gave myself a few days to recover with minimal work load.

I went to get checked again and i lost 1% body fat, down to 28.2% and @ 263.2 lbs  in 2 weeks.

I upped my calorie intake to 2450, and giving more intense weight training work outs + 5km walk with dogs every night. No running for now. I am still burning over 4k calories. Work out was intense:

Push up and pull ups (different kinds of push ups and pull ups)

15 push ups / 5 pull ups x 12 sets

I work all day and constantly walking, almost 10000 steps just from work.