Help: Weight Loss and body fat increasing !!

[ManuMeuh]

Hello!

I am French so sorry for my poor English level: i come here because i have a story and a little problem/question…

I hope this community will be more helpful than the French one 😉

First of all, a bit of “Storytelling”:

I have a FitBit One for more than 1 year. The main purpose was first only to discover my number of steps months after months (I like walks and statistics) and I had no “Weight Loss” goal…

Then, 5-6 months ago, quite stressfull moments got me to get bigger and bigger, then, few weeks ago I had a revelation: THIS MUST STOP!

So I began to really take care of my alimentation and I began to use the all Fitbit interface… And when I say all, it’s really all: daily weight, every aliments and calories eaten and weighted, every physical activity… And I also used the electronic coach included (the goal was to loose 5kg in 6 months: I wanted to discover my motivation before begin to be more ambitious).

And… it’s really working for the moment!! And faster than expected (I almost reached my goal 1 months and half after the beginning). But suddenly my old fashion scale broke up, and I decide to break my piggy-bank and invest in a FitBit Aria smart Scale (for me, the automatic filling of my every day weight to the dashboard by wifi was really a good way to keep de dynamic up !). This is how I discovered the % BODY FAT calculation.

And so, my problem: the more I lose weight, the more I gain body fat!!

And I don’t understand it (you can see the graphics below… In french, sorry!): I understand this figures that my efforts on my alimentation (I only took attention to the quantities first, I will check de kind of food eaten later) and on my physical activities (walk, swimming, bike… As never in my life) lead me to the good way on the weight, but in the very bad move on the body fat %!!

(In green, the body fat increasing. The blue sign is to point the date when I had the Aria scale.)

Does anyone understand and can explain me these figures? With all this sport, i can’t lose muscles right?

When I will have definitely reached my current goal, my real goal is to lose 5 more kilos till the end of the year… I would like to be sure that I go on the right way and that I don’t do any kind of wrong things…

Thanks for your help 

[Corney]

You are mistaken, if you are working hard that means you are using your muscles, the body will not burn muscles that are being used, if the workout is weight bearing it will strengthen the bones through osteogenesis, if you are not weight bearing for a period of time the bone will weaken through osteoclasis.  The only time the body harvests muscle is during a period of starvation, it saves fat for it's own survivial since fat stores the most calories per gram than either carbohydrates or muscle.  You will increase your percent body fat in 2 ways, one if you eat more than you burn, or two you percent lean body mass ( muscle and bone) decreases but your weight stays the same.  Try reading a book on The Physiology of Exercise.  I'm constantly amazed at the amount of mis-information out there, which is one reason I no longer receive posts regarding the absurd issue of fasting, cleansing and IMF.  Your body makeup is changing everyday depending on your level and kind of activity and what you eat.

[Corney]

Shipo, it was a post by Pjoe on 1-15-2015, if you can find it maybe you can make some sense out of it.

[Corney]

Shipo, I was referring to a post by Pjoe on 1-15-2015

[shipo]

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@Corney wrote:

Shipo, I was referring to a post by Pjoe on 1-15-2015

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Found it, thanks.

Yikes!  I just read @Pjoe's post and wow, can't say I've ever seen a post so directly contradict itself (or poster contradict him or herself) in a span of only a few short sentences.

I loved the following comment:

"Take a look at long distance runners.  They are all thin.  With such an exercise program you will lose muscle but will retain fat.  Your weight may or may not go down but body fat may remain the same.  Therefore you are thinner but with the same % body fat (fat skinny)."

Pretty funny, I am 5'8" and about 200 lbs. and carry a pretty fair amount of muscle, in fact, my son (in the military and hits the gym almost every day to lift crazy heavy weights) calls my legs "diesels" because they are so large.

[Crowesam]

@shipo hahaha! I want some of that "skinny fat" result :)! maybe flabby strong? I have really struggled with getting back down to 200lbs from around 250. I see benefits like lower resting heart rate, lower percent body fat when I put in close to 10k steps a day but I can't seem to get below 240lbs. 

[Crowesam]

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@shipo wrote:

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@Corney wrote:

Shipo, I was referring to a post by Pjoe on 1-15-2015

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Found it, thanks.

Yikes!  I just read @Pjoe's post and wow, can't say I've ever seen a post so directly contradict itself (or poster contradict him or herself) in a span of only a few short sentences.

 Therefore you are thinner but with the same % body fat (fat skinny).

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@shipo hahaha! I want some of that "skinny fat" result :)! maybe flabby strong? I have really struggled with getting back down to 200lbs from around 250. I see benefits like lower resting heart rate, lower percent body fat when I put in close to 10k steps a day but I can't seem to get below 240lbs. 

[shipo]

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@Crowesam wrote:

@shipo hahaha! I want some of that "skinny fat" result :)! maybe flabby strong? I have really struggled with getting back down to 200lbs from around 250. I see benefits like lower resting heart rate, lower percent body fat when I put in close to 10k steps a day but I can't seem to get below 240lbs. 

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Back in 2013 I went from 250+ (don't know what the "plus" was as I was too afraid to get in the scale) down into the 190-200 range in a period of about seven months.  The approach I took was running miles, miles, and more miles.  I started in April 2013 with a whopping 40 miles total for the entire month running somewhere between 2 and 5 miles roughly every-other day.  In May I kept my pace really slow and added a mile or so per run and logged 54 miles for the month.  In June I dialed the speed down a bit more and the distance up quite a bit and managed to log a surprising 136 miles, and in July I hit 200 miles in a month for the first time in my life (I was 56 years old at the time and had been running off and on, mostly off, since the late 1960s).  In August I repeated my 200+ mile monthly total, and did it again in September and October, and in October I crossed under the 200 pound threshold for the first time in, oh, I don't know, maybe ten years.  🙂

I should also add in that same April my wife and I sold our house and we moved to a small caretaker apartment on a horse farm where I take care of 11 horses 3 days per week; that is how I do my cross training.  🙂

If you want any tips on running, let me know, I coach part-time on both my company's running club as well as a local running club in my area and have helped lots of folks successfully ease into running.

[Crowesam]

@shipo 

  What a great success story. most of my excercise has been running/walking on a treadmill or around the living room. I served actively in the Army for 4 years and really learned to appreciate the joys of running. As a web developer I do a lot of sitting and have to fight for time to go run , but your story inspires me to think that if I put in the effort and get my mileage up I should be able to lose the 50 lbs and get back down to 200 again. 

At 5'9 I am considered obese and don't like the label or how I look in a bikini (of course that could be a body hair thing as well hahaha! - just kidding about wearing a bikini but want to lose the gut). 

[A_Lurker]

@Crowesam - a good percentage of the success for weight loss starts in the kitchen.  Exercise is an important thing, however, there's a saying that you can't out-run a bad diet.  

[shipo]

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@A_Lurker wrote:

@Crowesam - a good percentage of the success for weight loss starts in the kitchen.  Exercise is an important thing, however, there's a saying that you can't out-run a bad diet.  

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I've always hated that saying.  Why?  Because I believe it is only partially true.  I believe is well nigh on impossible to out-run lots of soda, fast food, and other junk, however, if the quality and diversity of the food are good, I do in fact believe one can out-run exess calories.  Why do I believe that?  Because I did it.

[A_Lurker]

@shipo - you may hate the expression, but @Crowesam made the statement that they were hitting the 10,000 step mark without problems and still not losing weight.  I do think that people need to look at their food (high or low) in order to see results.  Not sure about your acquaintances, but I've heard way to many people say... well, I was at the gym this morning... before they eat too much.  I worked with a girl who was super fit (lots of activities, heavy lifting, tons of energy) but she loved to eat.  Not junk food either.  Big lunches of tons of veggies, meats, etc.  Green shakes for breakfast and all that stuff.  I myself can sit down and eat a lot of calories in what some would consider a reasonably healthy meal... just a little too much of some calorie dense items and you're taking in more than you think.

If you're not seeing results, understanding why you aren't is done by looking at food first, then comparing to energy out.  You likely don't need to do that, but the poster I was replying to doesn't understand why they aren't seeing results.  Hey, as much as I credit my fitbit with giving me the information to make good choices, people don't always get that doing 10,000 steps a day isn't going to melt the fat away.

The expression I don't always like is 'eat less, move more'.  Back to basics it's true.  For myself, to get the weight off I actually have to do 'eat more, move more' otherwise I end up doing 'eat less, move less'.  The first seems to give me good, sustainable weight loss.  The second ends up with me gaining weight.  However, for the majority of people this likely works.  The risk for many is that when they move more, without understanding their intake, that it can be very easy to eat back those calories you burn.

Yesterday I came home early, sat in the pool reading for a while (beautiful afternoon and I'm not often home early).  Then I swam some laps for about an hour.  Not strenous laps, and not continously, but when I checked my data later I burned about 320 cals.  I actually did higher than that in the plant just before I left, but that's another story.  So, if I'd done a workout that burned 320 calories I might think that protein shake with a Tb of peanut butter is a healthy end to my workout.  Oops, hang on, I burn 80 calories sleeping, so I really only burned 240 calories.  Oh well, my smoothie was only 224 calories, I'm still okay.  That was 130 for the scoop of protein powder and 94 calories for my 1 Tb of peanut butter.  However, I'm eyeballing my food so that scoop of powder might be 150, and that heaping Tb of peanut butter might actually be 2... omg it was closer to 3 when I weighed it.

Workout - 320, no 240

Smoothie - 224, no 432

Hang on, I'm working out, how come I'm not losing weight?  I'm working out every day and eating well, I don't get it. 

To be fair, if I was doing all out exercising for an hour I don't think it would be unreasonable for me to hit well over 600 calories.  I also don't use peanut butter in a protein shake when I do occasionally make them.  If I do take them for breakfast (I go through phases) I use frozen mixed berries and a little ground up oats in them.  Just pointing out that without controlling (or at least monitoring) your intake, people can be way off, especially on calorie dense, but not necessarily unhealthy foods.

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Completely out of left field here, but if anyone is a numbers geek, I'm interested in the answer to this:

What is your lowest and highest burn rate during the day?  These were all from yesterday.  Not interested in the specific calories, but looking more for ratio

Sleeping - 1.3 cal/min

Peak     - 15.1 cal/min   (i.e.  11.6x sleeping)

Mid-range cardio - 11.3 cal/min  (i.e. 8.7x sleeping)

Mid-range fat burn - 8.7 cal/min (i.e. 6.7x sleeping)

[shipo]

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@A_Lurker wrote:

Completely out of left field here, but if anyone is a numbers geek, I'm interested in the answer to this:

What is your lowest and highest burn rate during the day?  These were all from yesterday.  Not interested in the specific calories, but looking more for ratio

Sleeping - 1.3 cal/min

Peak     - 15.1 cal/min   (i.e.  11.6x sleeping)

Mid-range cardio - 11.3 cal/min  (i.e. 8.7x sleeping)

Mid-range fat burn - 8.7 cal/min (i.e. 6.7x sleeping)

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I'm not a big fan of heart rate zones as I do not believe they are all that relevant for weight loss.  My current calculated "Max" heart rate based upon the 220-Age formula is 161, however, I have set a custom "Max" at 190 which in turn drops my heart rate activity down a zone or two compared to other folks my age.

My numbers from yesterday are pretty similar

• Sleeping: 1.2 cal/min
• Peak/Max: 15.4 cal/min (12.8x sleeping)
• Mid-Cardio: 14.7 cal/min (11.8x sleeping)
• Mid-FatBurn: 8.3 cal/min (6.9x sleeping)

My minutes in zones for the day:

• Peak: 0
• Cardio: 21
• Fat Burn: 121

[Dominique]

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@A_Lurker wrote:

Just pointing out that without controlling (or at least monitoring) your intake, people can be way off, especially on calorie dense, but not necessarily unhealthy foods. 

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Totally agree with the above: so easy to overeat without realizing it, even if you are very active and eating "healthy".

[A_Lurker]

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@shipo wrote:

I'm not a big fan of heart rate zones as I do not believe they are all that relevant for weight loss.  My current calculated "Max" heart rate based upon the 220-Age formula is 161, however, I have set a custom "Max" at 190 which in turn drops my heart rate activity down a zone or two compared to other folks my age.

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Thanks for the input.  I was just using the zones to compare numbers.  It's not even that good as with the average it doesn't mean you were at that level for the entire time period.  At the moment I don't really pay much attention to them.  I was just musing that eventually I will have to either ramp up the steps or the intensity as I continue to lose weight.  At the moment I keep an eye on what I burn, adjust my food accordingly, and don't worry about it.  Later, I'll likely have to worry about it. 

[Crowesam]

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You are absolutely on the mark with explaining to me why I am not making progress. My diet isn't so terrific and I do indulge in fast food or sodas with the idea that I can afford it because I burned the calories working out. I haven't changed my diet much at all. I also don't use the calorie tracker feature on my fitbit app. as I should. Your example witht he peanut butter and protein shake was marvelous. Thank you for sharing.

[A_Lurker]

No problems.  I really only eat clean perhaps 80% of the time.  Sometimes with travel and work (people in that we bring in breakfast and lunches for) it is even lower.  My uncle was a baker (well owned a large bakery company, but started as a baker).  He was always a fan of weighing things - critical to get the same results when baking.  I have always had a food scale to divide up batch cooking and it is common for me to weigh ingredients when I make a batch of something.  You do not need to do it, but it helps to understand what you are taking in.

For me, three of the five places I can get take-out from have online menu calculators.  I may not use them often, but I still do from time to time.

[snoodlest]

"

I can understand how seeing increased body fat when you are losing weight can be a bit confusing. Here's a little information about why that's likely happening:

Body fat percentage often increases when one loses weight because of hydration levels. In the first week or so of eating better, most people tend to lose a lot of water weight, because their diet includes less salt and refined sugar.

Body fat percentage is calculated as fat mass divided by total mass, so if you significantly lower the total mass while fat mass stays the same, the body fat percentage will increase. Even if fat mass is indeed decreasing, the total mass is decreasing more, resulting in an increase of body fat percentage.

If you continue to weigh yourself daily, you'll probably see that your body fat percent goes down on days when your weight fluctuates up since you're retaining more water those days. Similarly, on days when your weight fluctuates down, the body fat percent goes up because you're retaining less water."

I understand that initially body fat percentage may rise as total weight decreases or water is lost. So would it not be possible for the scale to report the estimated actual weight of body fat lost (or gained), rather than the percentage,  as well as total weight lost (or gained) .

It can be discouraging to see percentage bodyfat increase if you don't understand how to interpret this result. So why not offer more helpful data?

[Jotex]

Thank you SO much  https://community.fitbit.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/1210490 for asking your question about the seeming contradiction when body fat increases though you lost weight. And then your follow-up feedback on your progress!!! This is helping me a lot because I am struggling with the same question, and your report has motivated me to continue. I also like the charts you kept of weight, BMI and BF. Were you using an App, or recording everything manually? 

Anyway, thanks 🙏🏻 again. You are an inspiration to me! 

[Dominique]

Welcome to the community, @Jotex! It appears you wanted to tag the community member who started this topic, @ManuMeuh. To do so, just start typing the @ sign, after which you should see a popup with the topic starter and members who have taken part into it. Something like: 

You can them pick the person you want to tag from the list. However, it looks like he hasn’t been posting for more than two years, so I’m not sure you’ll get an answer from him. Let’s hope he notices the topic he started has been updated.

[Jotex]

@Dominique - as you can probably tell, I'm a newbie at all this. Thanks so much for explaining how it all works. You are right, I wanted to specifically thank @ManuMeuh for starting the discussion and the following up with his/her results later. It has inspired me to worry less (for now) about the Body Fat, and concentrate on getting fit (muscles) and losing weight.