Why is Sense not able to track SpO2 data on demand?

[gbrian9090]

How is Apple able to measure blood/ox instantly and without requiring sleep.  Also what is this "average" measurement? You have had the sensor on the watch as far as I can tell since at least 2016. Way ahead of Apple yet they were still able to beat you on all aspects of this.  How did it work out this way?

Moderator Edit: Clarified subject and updated label

[t.parker]

The first reports of the SpO2 sensor appeared with Ionic, long time ago but the sensor hasn't been activated for ages (in fact, my Ionic died long before the update bringing SpO2 readings arrived). I was always thinking there must be something wrong with the sensor, maybe the accuracy is not there. It may work by taking the average from the longer period of time (like night sleep) or work better in certain conditions but it may give inaccurate results when queried on-demand. I see no other reason why Fitbit doesn't allow to take an on-demand reading. Simply, the sensor and/or algorithm must not be fit for such a purpose. By giving results that cannot be verified, Fitbit is able to hide any inaccuracies. On-demand reading could put the sensor under doubt when tested against ie. pulse-oximeter. With my Garmin watch, I can take such reading anytime, can take a pulse-oximeter, and confront the readings, nothing to hide. No other explanation comes to my head.

[cz6y48]

I think Fitbit is measuring SpO2 over time as a general wellness metric rather than an instant reading you'd take like with a pulse oximeter.  I suspect they want to surface overall trends like highly variable readings at night that might be indicative of poor sleep/snoring/etc.

[t.parker]

@cz6y48 this is fine but it's nothing unique for Fitbit. On Garmin, you can turn on all-day (not just night) tracking and get similar (and more detailed) output. The question here is why the user can't check the blood oxygenation level on the spot which seems like the simplest thing you can do with a SpO2 sensor. I guess this is something that lots of users are curious about. Before you come up with a fancy way of interpreting the data, you'd rather give that data to the users. Feature SpO2 -> here you go, you can measure SpO2 anytime. From the development point of view, it is a very low hanging fruit to pick. Back then, when I still had my Ionic, I started thinking that some of the devices may not have a SpO2 sensor at all (I've never seen a red LED light at the back of my watch, something to be seen shortly after waking up and reported by some users). It is sad because Fitbit for a very short time had an advantage over the competition. If they played it well and introduced the SpO2 sensor the way users expected (data not obscure interpretation), on time and bugs free, it could be a great success 🙂 Now, competitors provide data and interpretation and Fitbit lost its chance.

I took a closer look at how the feature is described on the website:

"Sense tracks SpO2—the level of oxygen in your blood—to help you learn when there may be an indication of important changes in your fitness and wellness. See your SpO2 nightly average and range on wrist with an SpO2 clock face, and view trends over the past week in the Fitbit app.***"

Nothing tells you that you cannot take an on-demand reading. The first sentence is kinda binding here and states that Sense tracks SpO2 levels. My understanding is that I can track SpO2 levels + see my nightly average using clock face (this is extras to the basic functionality, interpretation of the data that Fitbit is trying to sell me, something like saying: "look, we track SpO2 levels like others but also..."). If SpO2 was something I was after then I might probably get this watch for that purpose. The text is accompanied by a picture of a clock face showing a big single number. Without knowing exactly how it works, you can easily take that screenshot for an on-demand reading. Clearly, Fitbit doesn't want to say that you cannot take the on-demand reading and you are supposed to find it out after you pay for the watch.

[SunsetRunner]

@gbrian9090 - Apple really did not beat Fitbit “on all aspects of this.”  Apple and Fitbit offer two very different features that are not really comparable. Fitbit uses sensors to measure your oxygen saturation while you sleep. it then reports on your average levels and variations. Apple is much different. Yes, the Apple Watch 6 can do a spot reading. It functions like a pulse oximeter. But it does not report on average levels or variations while you sleep. It also does not offer sleep data other than the time you went to sleep and the time when you awakened. The device you decide on will depend on your medical needs, since neither device offers everything. I don’t need spot readings but being a CPAP user, my doctor and I are interested in the oxygen variation reports, similar to what @cz6y48 mentioned. So the Fitbit fits my needs better. 

I’ve not researched other devices so cannot answer for them. But I do own both the Fitbit Sense and the Apple Watch 6. 

[gbrian9090]

First, I suppose for reasons of sleep alone the fitbit ( being there sleep monitoring algorithms are their pride and joy) See see why you would have both. kudos for Fitbit being ahead in one respect yeah doesn't make up for the fact they took them years to come out with a sensor that was on there watch for literally years. Promises to their customers that were broken time and time again. However, customers like myself Remained loyal only to be disappointed and on so many points. Setup to Constant connectivity issues as well as in accuracies with heart rate, etc.. only reinforced by reviewers that literally test these products for a living. I have a roommate who is still waiting on them to replace his Ionic they said they were sending out when his died! Still comparing Fitbit to Apple? Really?  Id sooner take Apple's Accuracy over Fitbits sleep scores that are probably just as inaccurate as their other readings have been shown to be on average.  How is anyone to ever have trust with them if they repeat bad history? 

I wish you happiness, health and a great next visit to your doctor. 🤗

[gbrian9090]

Ok, Carol.  I was in the middle of agreeing with you regarding Fitbit's commitment to great sleep algorithms and app layouts.  (if the numbers are accurate) However, many have shown your numbers (and i've experienced personally) are not accurate.  This did not seem to be sporadic but rather consistent.  I have sat all day doing nothing and yet it tracks that i've me my 10000 daily step goal!  

(btw when in the middle of last message to you your app popped up with a survey questionnaire deleting my entire message and forcing me to rewrite all this). Nice 👍!

 May wanna put that one in the "fixit" Fitbit bucket list. 

 

Do you realize people are not foolish and they can easily see it was done in order to keep Spotify etc.. happy by making music lovers pay for "ALL OR NOTHING" deal!

 Please do not delete, I still have hope for Fitbit.  I just would like to see company be more honest and grateful with its people that put food in their mouths. Not try to sell them on things they already shown disinterest in. Seems fair. 

Also, I asked a question that was NEVER answered STILL......

 Why are you store displays STILL showing on the Versa 3 and the Sense ( chart that shows bubbles on features each device has)

 that the two can store personal music.  There is NO CONFUSION THERE.  Never seen such straight up , in your face, false advertising before in my life.  ( not to mention they are STILL UP??!! Please explain this time...... Thank you

[gbrian9090]

Sorry took so long for response. Hope you get mine.  Thanks for getting what I was clearly saying here.  I guess this person must think little of Fitbit users to think im foolish enough (maybe they are) to believe I dont know the difference between sensors and applications that run them. Nor the fact that Fitbit need oniy itilize its "same sensor capability as Apples" and construct an algorithm to do spot blood/ox readings.  So in end could be a cost thing as always with Fitbit greed even though they keep their cost close to Apple. How dare they come off as even being on the vicinity as Apple is hilarious to me as well as many others by similar comments.

[gbrian9090]

Still would like an honest detailed answer on this by someone higher up. Preferably in direct connection with department who job it was on these functionality decisions.  Can I request this to be moved up the chain?  Even if you believe you know the answer i think I deserve after 4 watches to hear it from the "horses mouth" sort of speak. I know...

I hearby am "officially" requesting by Fitbit Inc. on this day written that my requested be sent directly to person(s) in charge of said company's job on your latest model, the "Sense" and its final determining functionality of the new who signed approval before its launch for its initial sale. 
Thank you

[m-umar]

@gbrian9090 Mine is always a day behind with message last night:no data. Apple watch & sense should be & are comparable as smart watches and any says otherwise is just buttering up the Fibit. Fitbit or Google now needs to get its act together and fix these issues if they're not H/W related. If not H/W related please refund everyone's hard earned money.

[KDOA]

I purchased the Sense thinking it would track my daytime oxygen levels and they would be uploaded to my stats.  I already had a ring keeping track of the daytime oxygen levels both on demand and tracking minute to minute with stats that I could share with my doctor and another medical tracker for nighttime, but I thought by getting the stats through my Fitbit Sense I would have one less thing to wear during the day.  The Sense's functionality was three steps back from what I had been using.  The Sense stats are useless to me.

[SunsetRunner]

The answer is because measuring SP02 on demand is useless and just a marketing gimmick. Unless your at a really high elevation, you will know if your oxygen saturation is low while your awake because you will be short of breath, have trouble breathing, feel weak, etc...ever see NFL players when they play at Mile High Stadium in Denver?

Reading your SP02 data at night only when you sleep is not only absolutely brilliant, it gives you a TRUE baseline of what your Oxygen Sat is. If your reading 94-98% while your at rest sleeping, then that means your waking SP02 stats are somewhere between 98-to 100%. Remember you breath LESS when your sleeping so you get a TRUE reading of what your absolute lowest SP02 levels are on room air while your sleeping. The on demand Sp02 readings like on the Apple Watch are just a gimmick and don't give you a true reading of what your base levels are like the Sense does.

[SunsetRunner]

@gbrian9090 - this is a community forum. We are simply other Fitbit users and have no way to honor your “official” request. I’m not even sure how you could go about finding this info. Wish I knew. 

On a side note, I can tell you I have an Apple Watch and several Fitbit devices. (Yes, I’m a geek.) I have lung issues and got the Apple Watch in the hopes of getting on-the-spot oxygen readings. I ended up buying a pulse oximeter because the Apple Watch only gives me o2 readings if they are within normal ranges. I agree with @SunsetRunner ‘s analysis. The overnight averages have been helpful to me and to my doctor’s. 

[m-umar]

These are not scientific devices and are not calibrated against any agreed baseline collectively by these smart watches. But nonetheless one do expect consistency in the output (HR, SPO2, STEPS, ELEVATION ETC) but that's where problem comes in my view and others complaining in this forum. 

[m-umar]

@SunsetRunner I've to disagree with you on spot spo2. SPO2 is quite useful at the sports when one is really exercising very strenuously and assists with recovery. 

Apple is far advance in these technologies one just have to read 3rd party reviews. 

But you're right in pointing out Fitbit's spo2 method but it could be improved by changing the algorithm..

[m-umar]

@KDOA totally understand your frustration that it could be really enabled easily to make changes to S/W which would be more meaningful to us all.

BTW which spo2 measuring device you using?

[KDOA]

The Wellue O2 monitors.  I have both the ring and the bracelet.  It was recommended by a friend who is a doctor.  He said it would be useful in monitoring the drop in O2 levels that often signals the beginning of Covid.  Instead it gave me documentation which indicated I needed a sleep study.  And the sleep study showed that I needed a CPAP.   Using the ring during the day has helped me see patterns in my O2 drops. I had hoped that my Fitbit Sense would do the same.

[Toebeesgirl]

You have both sense and Apple Watch….which do you prefer? Cost wise I love the sense but I feel like it falls to the Apple Watch. I have afib so my heart rate will go up when I’m actively in or have ate a lot of sweets and chocolate and the sense I’m finding doesn’t alert me like it said and I can’t find the heart rate chart in sense.

[pbug56]

A few years ago, (note I have asthma), I got very sick.  Did not know how bad, but finally went to an ER.  They were going to send me home after some blood tests (before getting results) and a bit of time on O2 (maybe 3 litres).  I resisted.  They finally took me off the O2, sent me for a walk down the hall with a finger clip (like one I have at home).  OOPS - my O2 level dropped considerably, 90's to 80's.  Then they reconsidered, admitted me.  Then they got back the results, which left me in isolation for a week (pre covid) with 2 lung infections and a blood infection.  Took months to recover.  

When commuting both before and after, it would have been nice to know (without trying to keep on a finger clip) how I was doing on the walking, stair climbing, etc.  Even better would be a chart (easily done in Excel if the data was available).  A way to spot possible problems along with charting progress.  I don't believe for a minute the claims that you can't measure SPO2 while walking.  Maybe not while running if the watch is bouncing towards and from the skin.  And one could calibrate against a known fingerclip.  But most important is seeing that maybe something is wrong, so one can use a fingerclip at the office or at home and compare to the Fitbit, and if they agree on low SPO2, you call and email a dump to your appropriate doctor.

[pbug56]

The ONE thing I get out of the magical mystery chart called 'variance' from my sense is the hint that maybe I'm not breathing well in my sleep.  The actual 'average' percentage is always 'low' - but is consistent, maybe 3% lower than my wide awake typical fingerclip SPO2.  Though a real chart of my sleeping SPO2 would be very helpful.  

Fitbit has the hardware, device drivers, data collection ability.  All these years after Ionic it's about time they let us use it all.  YES, keep the disclaimer.