Deep Sleep and How to Get More

[WavyDavey]

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages).  https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep. I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks. - In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am) - No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine). - No talking about work/problems after 8:00 - Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! ) - No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom) - Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window) - Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

[JackiLea]

I have read that around 20% deep sleep is optimal.

[Aismoc]

Thank you..

[WavyDavey]

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@JackiLea wrote:

I have read that around 20% deep sleep is optimal.

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It really depends on your age. There's a benchmark tab in the app that shows how you rank against people of your age group and gender. The older we get, the sleep deep sleep we get on average.

[Charlesnester]

I don't go to sleep in the day. I am going to deep sleep more than one and a half hour at night. Then I don't say anything. But after it is very tough for me to go to sleep. I don't know why or what happened with me?

[73yLightSleeper]

Thanks for telling me you can adjust the Sleep record! I did not know that. I wondered why it seems like the record might not be telling the truth or what I think I'm sleeping is not anywhere near normal or calculable.

[Charlesnester]

Why is 20% of deep sleep optimal?

[WavyDavey]

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@Charlesnester wrote:

Why is 20% of deep sleep optimal?

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It's not, depending on your gender and age. If you check the Benchmarks tap inside the Sleep section of the app, it'll show what your ideal deep sleep is. Certainly, many people report much less deep sleep as they age. Deep sleep is important because it gives the brain a rest and releases hormones that help repair and grow the body. I notice more physical performance issues after not getting enough deep sleep.

[Mothra53]

My understanding of the Benchmark tab is that ii shows the typical range
for people of your age and gender, not the ideal range.

[SFaltafb]

Mine too

Sent from my iPhone

[pjb_1962]

Hi! I'm very interested in the things WavyDavy wrote about and plan to follow up on some of the links this weekend. You said "No vitamin B apart from morning time" - could you please explain why? I usually take mine after lunch, since I need to eat when I take it and I frequently skip breakfast if I'm not hungry.

Thanks!

Paula

[ForecasterJason]

According to this study, close to 20% deep sleep was achieved by teens/young adults, with adults 36+ years of age achieving less than 10%. From what I can tell, it looks like total sleep time (including wake periods) may have been around 8 hours, so this means that the young adults were getting about 1.5 hours of deep sleep a night. Keep in mind that this data was collected from 1985-1999, so we're talking long before widespread use of smartphones and LED/florescent light bulbs. So while 20% may be optimal, I seriously doubt that most people (including those in their late teens to mid 20s) are actually getting this amount at the present time.

IMO, I would say that while more deep sleep is certainly necessary, it is becoming harder and harder to achieve in the environment most of us are in, and we have to do the best we can with the tools and advice that's been listed.

[timcotter]

I'm a 35yo working male. have no major other health issues.  On a normal night, I get between 25 minutes-1 hour of deep sleep. It's usually either too small of a percentage to show, or about 11% of my total sleep. My REM statistics are normal and I sleep 5-6 hours a night.

What could be causing this lack of deep sleep? Could I just be a lighter sleeper than most?

[ForecasterJason]

@timcotter There could be several factors including stress and sub optimal levels of some nutrients. Does your sleep feel unrefreshing?

[aux]

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@timcotter wrote:

I'm a 35yo working male. have no major other health issues.  On a normal night, I get between 25 minutes-1 hour of deep sleep. It's usually either too small of a percentage to show, or about 11% of my total sleep. My REM statistics are normal and I sleep 5-6 hours a night.

What could be causing this lack of deep sleep? Could I just be a lighter sleeper than most?

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5-6 hours of sleep is pretty low, but maybe for you it's enough. Do you feel refreshed in the morning? Then there's nothing wrong with your sleep. Keep in mind that the fitbit is mostly guessing, it can't actually measure sleep stages, so don't rely too much on it to sleep better. The only thing that matters is how you feel in the morning.

[pjb_1962]

Interesting! I took some CBD gummies that I bought a while ago. Took them at the time but woke up with a headache every morning when I used them so I stopped. Tried again after getting my Fitbit and found that my deep sleep stats improved markedly. Mild headache in the am still, though. Only problem is the good ones are expensive and from what I read your tolerance will increase and you'll need more as time goes on to get the same quality of sleep. Not sure it makes sense for me as the cost will go up accordingly. It was really good sleep though.

[2000190521790]

I tried cbd oil several month's ago,but it did nothing for me with regard
to sleep. It had been rated as the top brand. What brand and dosage did you
use?

[dancefoxtrot]

I would go to a Medical Cannabis store and ask them what is best for sleep.

[spirilis]

37/male doing computer work (desk job).  After a couple months of CPAP therapy feeling a bit sharper but ... not .... quite ... right yet, my new Fitbit Charge 3 is the first thing I've used that's given me a hint of what's wrong- I rarely get the minimum recommended amount of deep sleep, and I can say with certainty I can tell the difference between <45 minutes of deep sleep and >50 or so.  With less than 45 minutes of deep sleep I usually wake up feeling like I need to slumber around in bed for an hour, with 50 or more minutes I'm usually ambitious enough to get out of bed right away.

Stats ever since I bought my Fitbit:

6/16 - 6hr13min, 34 in deep sleep (8.1%)
6/17 - 7hr7min, 33 in deep sleep (6.9%)
6/18 - 7hr10min, 47 in deep sleep (10.1%)
6/19 - 7hr7min, 47 in deep sleep (9.6%)
6/20 - 6hr34min, 12 in deep sleep (2.8%)
6/21 - 7hr30min, 58 in deep sleep (11.8%)
6/22 - 7hr24min, 54 in deep sleep (10.8%)
6/23 - 7hr3min, 43 in deep sleep (9.1%)
6/24 - 7hr4min, 37 in deep sleep (7.9%)
6/25 - 7hr20min, 70 in deep sleep (14.2%)
6/26 - 6hr34min, 65 in deep sleep (15.4%)
6/27 - 6hr38min, 36 in deep sleep (8.3%)
6/28 - 6hr56min, 54 in deep sleep (11.4%)

Monday night & Tuesday night were great, coincidentally both days I was off work doing a lot of physical work (fixing up our house).  Every other day was sedentary with occasional walks.

This week I've started toying with the CPAP, changing its automatic-pressure setting feature to a softer setting wondering if the CPAP is some how arousing me from deep sleep.  I don't think that's it but I'm collecting data & tinkering to see if it helps.

Getting optimal deep sleep really does feel like a tough nut to crack.

[Charlesnester]

Thanks, Wavvy, for your excellent information. You mean Deep sleep give our mind rest and help to grow our body. I agree with you because when I'm don't get proper sleep at night, I feel worse in the day and mind is upset.

[kentskyo]

I was curious if any else is logging deep sleep later in their sleep period? I seem to get about half of mine after 5-6 hours. Factors that may contribute include lack of a fixed time to go to bed, I usually meditate for 30 minutes and do some yoga (relaxed stretches) just before bed. Average deep sleep is around an hour and 15 minutes, split between the first half of the sleep period and the last half...