Cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Deep Sleep and How to Get More

As someone who has been interested in deep sleep, I was pleased when Fitbit rolled out the sleep stages. Over the last few weeks, my deep sleep has plummeted, and I've tried a few things to improve it. One in particular has worked really well, that I'd like to share.

 

But first, what is deep sleep, and why is it important, especially to people engaging in fitness. Deep sleep is the most mysterious part of sleep, because we're not awake, we're not consciously dreaming. Really, there's not much going on at all, mentally. And that's important, to give us a break from thinking so we can process and integrate our experiences.

In terms of physical health, deep sleep is critical. Potent hormones such a GH and IGF-1 are released during deep sleep. These hormones are linked to physical health as well as performance. When I don't get enough deep sleep, my strength workouts really suffer. Interestingly enough, getting a small amount of overall sleep affects me less than getting 8 hours of sleep, but very little deep sleep. That's how important it is.

I read a lot of articles and papers online about getting more deep sleep. But almost all of them were just generic advice on getting more and better sleep. They didn't focus on deep sleep itself, which is what I'm trying to improve. So I began experimenting...

 

Since deep sleep is a kind of oblivion (from the mind's perspective), there's no real conscious way to make it happen. While there are many tricks to falling asleep, or inducing dreams, the realm of deep sleep seems less traveled.

So what's worked for me? First, is acknowledging I can't consciously put myself into deep sleep, because the very nature of deep sleep is unconscious. This may seem obvious, but it was an important realization to me. Because deep sleep occurs near the beginning of the sleep cycle, before REM, I feel the "getting to sleep" portion of the night is the most important aspect of getting deep sleep.

Recently, when I can't sleep, I've taken to just getting out of bed, have some water, read a little. Just forget all about getting to sleep. Last night I went to sleep when ready, instead of when I should. I got less than 6 hours sleep, but my deep sleep was greatly increased. Today's workout I hit two personal records (squat and overhead press), and felt fine afterwards, despite not much sleep. It will be interesting to see the relationship between amount of overall sleep compared to deep sleep. For now, my experience says the amount of deep sleep is critical to physical performance.

Would love to hear other's thoughts on the subject.

Edit 2/24/2018:

Compilation of tips and links from the first 8 Pages:

 

Source: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gartenberg_the_brain_benefits_of_deep_sleep_and_how_to_get_more_of_it?...

There's a great guy Shawn Stevenson. He's written a book called Sleep Smarter - it's well worth a read. Also you can check him out on You Tube

Terry Gross on Fresh Air recently interviewed sleep scientist Matthew Walker.  Walker is the director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley.  He has written a book titled Why We Sleep.  Terry Gross' interview with him was most interesting.  Here's the link: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558058812/sleep-scientist-warns-against-walking-...

There are some other suggestions for improving sleep on the pages linked below. I think there are a few that may be questionable as to their effectiveness. But what hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is the role of diet and gut health may play in promoting enough deep sleep. That being said, I feel as though the line can be blurred here between what's specifically helpful for deep sleep vs sleep in general (light and REM stages). 

https://www.alexfergus.com/blog/how-to-increase-deep-sleep

https://selfhacked.com/blog/methods-to-fall-asleep-insomniac/ 

 

Stress

Gratitude list

Write down worries

I think in various ways we’re all saying the same thing - mental stress. Getting 10k steps isn’t just about getting the steps, it’s about carving out that time for yourself. So is disconnecting from electronics. When I take care of my mental self, I get deep sleep. I barely got any exercise over Christmas, but my sleep was excellent because my anxiety was low. That’s going to be different for each of us, but I think the core of it is the same - making time toward the end of each day to spend time doing the thing that makes us happy. For me, it’s keeping my caffeine consumption low during the day and then reading a book before I fall asleep. For someone else, it’s digging in the dirt. But what I heard on this forum is a lot of anxiety and not a lot of time carved out of the day to take care of our inner selves. That’s the greatest treat we can give ourselves these days - the gift of time for ourselves. Maybe that sounds hokey, but that has been the biggest thing for me, more than what I eat or drink or if I use F.lux on my devices (I do). I know that’s easier said than done, but I hope my experience helps someone get better sleep tonight

Calm app and meditation

 

Timings

I've read and heard from more than a few sources that getting to bed before 10pm is recommended

 

They say if you go to bed at 10am, you get the optimum sleep and recovery etc

Having a set routine is really critical for the body to know when to shut down and repair

 

Tools

Linking up the sleep stage monitoring so that the deep sleep enhancing sounds are played through a small speaker at the relevant periods so as to increase the effectiveness of the deep sleep in regenerating the body and mind

 

Since deep sleep occurs mostly at the beginning of sleep, I'm going to try falling asleep listening to some delta waves. You can use anything that will play music. If you search youtube for "delta wave sleep" or "binaural beats", there are lots of selections to choose from

Ear plugs

Using electronics at night definitely has an effect on sleep and deep sleep. I've used a freeware program on android and windows called F.lux. What it does is adjust the color spectrum of these devices to more naturally follow the changes of day and night. Since then, I picked up a pair of blue-blocking glasses, that I wear while watching TV at night. They work really well

Pillow spray

Memory foam bed topper

 

Vitamins

No vitamin B apart from morning time

Magnesium

Vitamin D

I am trying a new supplement to help with falling asleep. It's called ZMA--and is zinc, magnesium and B6. I haven't changed any other aspect of sleep hygiene, to hopefully isolate the effect of ZMA. After two days of taking it at bedtime, my deep sleep % has gone from 10 to 18. Maybe someone else will get similar results?

 Try Prebiotica before you go to sleep. I saw this in a BBC documentary about sleep. It can push your deep sleep up about 9%

 

Various  

No alcohol (I only had about 2-4oz on occasion at night, but this really affected deep sleep), no screen time 2 hours before bed.  Stress also plays a big factor - I think it's actually the worse contributor to lack of deep sleep

I've made a few adjustments that seem to have increased my deep sleep time. 1. Shutting off the screens about 90 minutes before bed. 2. Drinking homemade "sleepy tea" with chamomile, valarian, lavender, hibiscus, red raspberry leaf and stevia. 3. Downloading the "Calm" app and doing at least a 5 minute meditation from their sleep options right before falling asleep. Also, having a routine that I am sticking to, which includes these things, plus writing a gratitude list and putting on on my humidifier/diffuser with lavender essential oil in it and reading if there's time. I managed to increase my deep sleep from about 8% to 16%, so something is working

I suffered from severe insomnia for most of my life.  Over the last 10 years I’ve been able to get that under control using various tricks, and I’m happy to see that my new Fitbit confirms that, averaging 1.5 hours of deep sleep.

I’m happy to share in case it can help someone else, but these are well known tricks.

- In bed by 10:30 most nights (my usual was midnight to 1am)

- No wine/juice caffeine in the evening on weekdays (after 4 for caffeine).

- No talking about work/problems after 8:00

- Enough physical activity during the day (I’m a bit of a couch potato, hence the new Fitbit! )

- No electronics after 9:30 (tv seems ok for me but it’s not in my bedroom)

- Eliminated sources of light in my bedroom (chargers, iphone, window)

- Up by 10 max on weekends to maintain a sleep pattern

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Work out...eat... sleep...repeat!
Dave | California

Best Answer
484 REPLIES 484

@ParallaxView  Thank you. That is impressive. Hope for me yet! I used to take either dimenhydrinate or diphenhydramine but read that both are linked to the development of AD plaques. Dimenhydrinate was very good and long lasting. I did download your book suggestion a few days ago but am reading Shawn Stephenson’s first. (I may have spelled that wrong). I live in a dark and quiet spot on the edge of the ocean so not much noise or light pollution. I tried MJ edibles (live in Canada) but while they make me sleepy I only have a problem sustaining sleep and not dropping off to sleep. By the time I wake up at 4 or thereabouts, they have worn off. I slept 7.5 hours last night but only 14 minutes deep sleep. Will keep on trying to find the answer. 

Best Answer

 

Antonia G, I do hope you don't take what your Fitbit tells you about the amount of deep sleep you get each night too seriously. It is, after all, not a medical device.

 

As several users have pointed out previously, sleep studies they had carried out at a hospital (including my own study) have shown that Fitbit has problems getting the data right when it comes to deep sleep (usually underestimated) - which is only logical as Fitbit can only rely on heart rate and movement during sleep, and this is not sufficient for medical purposes.

 

So if you are really concerned about your deep sleep, it might be a good idea to have a proper study done.

Best Answer

Well here is a mystery. I now have the O  ura  ring device as well. Last night, both devices told me that I had 8.5 hours sleep (I took a U Dream because I only slept three hours the night before). Fitbit says 44 minutes deep and 1 hour 40 mins REM after 2 pm. 
The  ring says 1 hour 50 mins REM before 2 and 1 hour 15 mins deep. I’ll take the 1 hour 15 over the 44 minutes. The sleep tabs have been working really well. Woke up with a migraine again though 🤬

Best Answer
0 Votes

Just an observation on being ‘ready’ for sleep. I feel most ready to sleep when my actual heart rate is close to my typical resting heart rate, especially at the lower end. So feeling sleepy is induced by relaxation, not being too active close to bed time, eliminating evening caffeine and not eating too late.

Best Answer
0 Votes

One cause of less deep sleep for me has been inflammation. Making some dietary changes has lessened the inflammation and improved sleep. CBD also seems to help in this regard.

 

 

Work out...eat... sleep...repeat!
Dave | California

Best Answer
0 Votes

Hi Dave, 

 

I get around 6 hours sleep in the week with 45 mins deep sleep, my problem is finishing from the gym sometimes at 7 and feeling pumped the rest of evening. Also the TV and phone.

 

I'm going to try training and rating earlier, not looking at my phone (like I'm doing now!) And meditating a little before sleep. 

 

Will update the group with the results!

 

Ta

Sukh

Best Answer
0 Votes

I am new to Fitbit.  On day two I had sleep graph that showed me % of sleep and when I was in Deep Sleep.  Since then, 3 days later, I have a bar graph that shows my sleep, awake, restless...how do I get that graph to show all the time?  I want to see my % of sleep and my deep sleep but can't seem to locate how to get that information back on my fitbit.

Best Answer
0 Votes

I recently read diphenhydramine can cause adrenal fatigue, which I have already been diagnosed with, was struggling with, so I won't take it again.  I switched to 5HTP:  50mg while not menstruating and 100 mg time release while menstruating because I get really bad insomnia.  Estrogen boosters also help while menstruating.

Best Answer
0 Votes

Have you tried Wim Hof?  I haven't been hitting a hour of deep sleep lately.  Followed this video last night https://youtu.be/pZdj0P8Ce3s right before bed, and I got 1:39 deep sleep.  It hurts to breath hard through my nose, so I only breathe through my mouth.  I also don't like meditating, but this works for me.

 

More information on Wim Hof

https://youtu.be/qLh1QHdTbtE

 

https://youtu.be/8gYoFGQ9pVU

 

 

Best Answer
0 Votes

Fitbit displays the bar chart if you missed some of the stages or if you didn't get enough.  There is a better explanation in their help manual

Best Answer
0 Votes
Wow! Really great post!
Best Answer

I have found that setting my Fitbit to remind me to start winding down for the evening at 8:00 pm helps.  However, beginning to think that wearing it at night may create a little anxiety. What's my sleep score for the night going to be!?  That said, the analysis of sleep stages interesting.  Not sleeping at night is a vicious cycle.  Bad night's sleep, nap during the day, not sleepy in the evening, stay up too late and another poor night's sleep.  Going to take the advice of going to bed at 10:00, try to get on a schedule.  

 

 

Best Answer
0 Votes

For summer, try a good sleep mask.  It worked for me to stop waking up too early due to light.

Best Answer
0 Votes
Agree! I can’t sleep without one, even in the winter. I also use a white
noise machine...
Best Answer
0 Votes

Sleeping is very important and I totally agree that. Sleeping determinate how will be your mood, health, attention, immunity... It is very important to sleep correctly, necessary temperature, position, level of light because all this things can determinate your life. If you have problems with sleeping you can try to use CBD products. In past I had problems with sleeping and I tried different CBD products and it really helped me. You can check on a blog about CBD dosage more info about the benefits of this product. Take care guys and good luck !

Best Answer
0 Votes

I hope that continues to work for you. I will have to try other things aside from just getting the exercise. I walk everyday with my dog and then I do janitorial work as my daily job, so the steps are easy for me to get, sleep, not so much. For example, Monday my finishing stats were 75 zone minutes, 11,547 steps, 7 flights of stairs,  7.5 km walked. I slept that night for 6.5 hours, and my deep sleep was only 11%.  Yesterday's stats were very close to the same, and last night I got a good 7 hours 55 minutes of actual sleep, but only 19 minutes of that was deep sleep. My issue is that I work until 10pm or so, eat dinner around 10:30 and then try to be sleeping by 1am because we have another business that requires us to be up by 9.  I will have to try all the electronics off earlier, but then that just means no tv watching for us between dinner and bedtime. Good thing I like to read.

Best Answer
0 Votes

Yes, after a few awful, 3 hour a night sleeps, I've been known to take 10mg of melatonin, just to try to break the cycle. ( I do not take any OTC sleep aids such as Nytol or prescriptions as they are extremely habit forming). I have had some pretty wild dreams, but no nightmares. The only thing I find as a side-effect that bothers me is a sensitivity to sunlight the next day. Hurts my eyes.

Best Answer

Just a suggestion, but you may want to try 5HTP.  According to Dale R. Bredesen "The End of Alzheimer's" taking too much melatonin can cause you to only sleep part way through the night   I was taking the 10 MG time release pills when I read that.  I switched to 5HTP, with only 1.5 MG melatonin to fall asleep, and it worked much better.  The only problem is 5HTP gives me gastric problems in high doses, so I stick to a minimum dose. When I take it.

 

Most of the time I use indica gummies now.

 

Nothing has helped me sleep more than going on hormone replacement therapy though.  

Best Answer
0 Votes

Well, I got higher sleep score when I started wearing super soft custom sleep earplugs from Big Ear about 2 months ago. Less stress from the workplace (I now work from home) might have also improved my sleep quality. Check Big Ear's website out. They are pretty good!

Best Answer
0 Votes

Hi Dave,

I wanted to respond to your interesting post about deep sleep. (Thanks for the links to the articles.) Like you, I have had insomnia for years and have been working on it since I got my Fitbit a year and a half ago. My insomnia is the sleep maintenance type - I fall asleep quickly but I wake up after 4-5 hours and can't fall back to sleep. This has gradually improved to the point where I average about 6:30 hrs sleep per night. Eight months ago, I pulled old medical records I had never read closely before and realized I have a 10+ year history of vitamin B12 and vitamin D deficiency. So I started taking supplements for both and getting regular blood tests to track progress, which was slow. (I can't take large quantities of vitamin D - it makes my insomnia worse and the absorption of vitamin B12 tablets taken orally is impaired in some people, including me.) Recently, after reading a couple of articles that focused on the benefits of synthesizing vitamin D from the sun - and how to do so without increasing your risk for skin cancer - I started to deliberately spend time in the sun daily with my legs, arms and face exposed. I also started taking a low-dose vitamin B12 sublingual, which gets absorbed without having to go through the digestive system. Since then, I have noticed both my REM and deep sleep have increased dramatically. Both are consistently at the high end of the benchmark and sometimes above it. (Yesterday my REM was 33% and my deep sleep was 17%). Like you, I feel much better and more rested when I get so much deep sleep. I don't feel tired when sleep 6 or 6.5 hours. My sense is that sun exposure is the biggest factor, since sun exposure regulates your circadian rhythm and controls the release of both dopamine and melatonin in the body.

Best Answer