50M Water Resistance - Clarification?

[runwithnewmedia]

Hi! 

Super interested in the Ionic -- thanks for continuing to innovate on your products, etc. 

I was curious -- most things that I am reading online in regards to watch water proofing are telling me that 50M resistance is not adequate enough for swimming -- the recommendation is still to remove a watch with that rating before jumping in water. 

Just a a few examples:

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/what-does-water-resistance-in-diving-watches-mean

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f17/water-resistance-myth-vs-reality-159142.html

https://www.thrillist.com/gear/what-your-watch-water-resistance-numbers-mean

So -- suppose I purchased the Ionic and went for a swim -- due to the 50M rating the watch ends up getting water damaged -- would it be covered under warranty? Are you undercutting actual resistance? It doesn't sound like I should be swimming with this thing based on current stats, even though you are advertising swim tracking. Little bit concerned about this and would love some clarification! Thanks!

[Julia_G]

@runwithnewmedia, the Ionic features clearly state that the new Ionic will track swim workouts with distance, laps, duration.

That being the case, it sounds like you can be confident that swimming will not harm your device and the warranty will be unaffected.

The technical specs refer to "rain, sweat and splash" proof, however, so I would keep an eye on any updates to this information.

[runwithnewmedia]

Thanks @Julia_G! Due to the ambiguity of the language and the recommendations I am seeing online (don't swim with a 50m wr watch), I'd love to hear from Fitbit directly on this. 

Will keep my eye on the tech specs to see if they change.

[shipo]

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@Julia_G wrote:

The technical specs refer to "rain, sweat and splash" proof, however, so I would keep an eye on any updates to this information.

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Seems to me to be the same language Fitbit used for the Surge; yeah, about that, I'm thinking they missed one item from that line, "Shipo Sweat".  All I need to do to ruin an otherwise perfectly new Surge is to strap it to my left wrist on a warm and humid summer day, then head out for a nice long fifteen mile run.  By the time I get back there will be condensation under the screen.  If I do this every day for a week there will be liquid water inside the screen which rolls back and forth as the tracker moves.

The above said, I think I read somewhere the Ionic was "Waterproof" not just "Water Resistant".

[runwithnewmedia]

@shipo The tech specs section of the product page reads "water resistant up to 50 meters." See attached screen grab. Still waiting for clarification from Fitbit on this one. Is there an official IP or ATM rating? Still curious about water damage and warranty with the Ionic.

[Julia_G]

Hi, @shipo, the Surge did not claim it could track swimming.  The Ionic says it can.

Also my understanding is that "waterproof" is no longer officially used.  An item is always said to be "water resistant" up to X meters (feet).

@runwithnewmedia, I appreciate that you will want official updates, but if your concern is warranty, as long the product specs say you can swim with it, and you swim with it, you have used it according to recommendations, and therefore any warranty claims relative to swim damage would be honoured.  That's a simple matter of contract law,

[Bunnybear_05]

Well I have a flex 2 and have swam with it,hot tub etc.

No issues.....while I've had issues when I forgot to take my original flex off that doesn't have swim capabilities. 

If the flex 2 wording is the same as the ionic...then I'm not too worried. 

[runwithnewmedia]

@Bunnybear_05 Pretty different wording and 100m water resistance. Would still like some clarity. 🙂 

[steveting99]

My understanding is that indoor swimming (in a pool) is okay.

It's open water swimming in the sea where problems may occur. The Ionic might not be compatible with saltwater.

[runwithnewmedia]

Where is that info coming from @steveting99? 

I think what folks at the links I've posted are getting at is that there is potential when swimming laps for pressure to go above 5atm, either from swim cadence or from pool wall jets, hence the recommendation to not swim with a 50wr/5atm watch. 

@ErickFitbit?

[Bunnybear_05]

Ahhh yes I see what your saying. Big difference in wording. I'd like clarification too. I'm not a big swimmer. But it was quite nice not needing to worry about removing my flex 2 in the ocean or lake on recent trips. 

[bbarrera]

Fitbit is clear as mud, this is exact wording from Technical Specs on https://www.fitbit.com/ionic

Compare that to the screenshot above of Flex 2 wording.

The ISO standard 22810:2010 for water resistance only covers static pressure ("up to 50 meters"), and leaves activities (swimming, snorkeling, etc) covered by the warranty to be defined by the manufacturer. So when Fitbit states "up to 50 meters" (who cares, I'm not going to slowly lower my tracker to 50 meters) they must also state activities supported by the warranty.

It would be an odd oversight to not include activities, given the Surge water resistance kerfuffle, so I think its intentional and hope to see Fitbit update the Technical Specs in the near future.

[SunsetRunner]

Please clarify: are you tracking the HR while swimming or is that a definite no-go? Or is that a topic you're investigating and may change as experience and data with this device increases?

[shipo]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:
Please clarify: are you tracking the HR while swimming or is that a definite no-go? Or is that a topic you're investigating and may change as experience and data with this device increases?

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There was a thread yesterday which answered this question; basically the Ionic disables the HRM while in swimming mode.  I was fairly surprised by Fitbit's response and am wondering if I can enable the HRM for swimming mode via the new SDK.

[SunsetRunner]

Thank you very much for your response & my apologies for not taking greater care when reading the old posts (which at the moment are only two pages long anyway.)

Well... I do hope they change their mind. I read somewhere else that according to their preliminary results water had skewed their sensor data too much, but... hopefully there'll be a special mode "I promise to strap it on real tight please record the sensor data any way" for those in need. 🙂

[shipo]

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@SunsetRunner wrote:

Thank you very much for your response & my apologies for not taking greater care when reading the old posts (which at the moment are only two pages long anyway.)

Well... I do hope they change their mind. I read somewhere else that according to their preliminary results water had skewed their sensor data too much, but... hopefully there'll be a special mode "I promise to strap it on real tight please record the sensor data any way" for those in need. 🙂

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Just my personal thoughts/opinions here:

• I currently run with a Fitbit Surge; during the summer months here in New England I sweat profusely (a very gross understatement).
• I have found if my Surge is at all loose, my HRM graph shows bizarre results.
• If I snug down the strap on my tracker, it seems no matter how wet I get (meaning probably no difference in the amount of water between the tracker and my skin, swimming versus running), I get accurate and consistent results.
• Given the significant advancement the red LEDs bring to the Ionic HRM, I'm kind of thinking if the Ionic was strapped down tight enough, it would return pretty consistent results regardless of whether the owner was swimming, running, or sitting on the porch drinking a cold beer.

[SteviK]

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@steveting99 wrote:

My understanding is that indoor swimming (in a pool) is okay.

It's open water swimming in the sea where problems may occur. The Ionic might not be compatible with saltwater.

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I would like to know if the Ionic can ONLY be used in a chlorinated pool. Can it be worn in the ocean or saltwater pool?

[ErickFitbit]

Hi everyone -- We have tested Ionic in accordance with industry standards and it is water resistant up to 50 meters (5ATM/150 feet). Ionic has an IPX7 rating.

[bbarrera]

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@ErickFitbit wrote:

Hi everyone -- We have tested Ionic in accordance with industry standards and it is water resistant up to 50 meters (5ATM/150 feet). Ionic has an IPX7 rating.

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@ErickFitbit the industry standard only covers static pressure testing. Its not interesting by itself.

The same standard states that activities like swimming, snorkeling, etc are outside the standard and left to Fitbit to state if they are covered by the warranty.

[runwithnewmedia]

@ErickFitbit Thanks for your response!

IPx7 is an industry standard rating for 1 meter of water immersed for up to 30 minutes. 

You are claiming 50m water resistance. 

In either case these are not recommended for swimming/water activities. See Garmin's water rating scale as an example -- http://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating Again, IPx7 is not recommended for swimming. Their *swim rating has 50 - 100m, but I would imagine anything that they rate as swim would be covered under warranty.

Does the Ionic's warranty cover swimming as an activity?