Ionic GPS Inaccuracies

[MP4]

Hi, 

I'm a new Fitbit user, bought an Ionic on Monday and I'm having some issues with the GPS. Went on a couple of runs (at a track) and the gps seemed to be completely out both on the distance travelled and pace per kilometre.

I'm a long time strava user so yesterday I went for a run with both the Fitbit Ionic going and the strava on my iPhone running at the same time. Here are the results:

Strava - 7.9km   @ 4:15/km

Fitbit - 7.2km     @ 4:34/km

The difference of 0.7km is quite big and the difference in pace is also worrying. I waited till both had connected to gps before starting the run and I run in London where gps signal should be good. 

Is my Fitbit Ionic GPS not working correctly? Any help/advice would be appreciated. 

Thanks

Matt

Moderator Edit: Updated Subject for Clarity

[BahGahWah]

@SantiR Thanks for the reply, interesting that @Fitbit are posting the following on their Facebook page 

“The #FitbitIonic uses GLONASS, a system that taps into global satellites, so no matter where you are – in the middle of a city or the peak of a mountain – you get the best stats.”

Not sure that is the experience many of us are receiving from the product.

[tonny123]

@BahGahWah 🙂 "Made in USSR!"

In Soviet Russia Glonass navitared by you.

[bmw54]

---

wrote:

@SantiR@ Thanks for the reply, interesting that @Fitbit are posting the following on their Facebook page 

“The #FitbitIonic uses GLONASS, a system that taps into global satellites, so no matter where you are – in the middle of a city or the peak of a mountain – you get the best stats.”

Not sure that is the experience many of us are receiving from the product.

---

For 4 months I've given Fitbit the benefit of the doubt and believed they were acting in good faith and would fix Ionic's Run app. I even thought that maybe it was unreasonable for me to assume they'd use the GPS data Ionic collects to calculate stats. But after looking at this ad I feel deceived:

[JT200SX]

Adding one more case to the list - the Ionic GPS is terrible.  It can't hold GPS signal on the same runs that my Samsung phone tracked without any problems.  It's useless.

I know my stride length changes when I get tired, that's why I need the GPS-based pace to tell me I am slowing down, so I can push harder and speed up.  As someone else said here, stride-based distance calculation is not a feature.  

This is my first experience with a Fitbit product, and while I appreciate the fact that many people in this forum are taking the time to try to figure out what is wrong with it, that's not our job.  The Ionic should work 100% out of the box as advertised - testing and troubleshooting is Fitbit's job, before it is released.  Most of us are just runners, not engineers...

[tonny123]

@JT200SX I think main problem is that this issue was reported long time ago and Fitbit still "looking into it". Considering that it's a software feature - how hard can it be to fix this!?

[JT200SX]

Thanks @tonny123.  I read all the comments regarding the GPS working and the software not calculating distance/speed accurately, but for me, the GPS doesn't even work well.  Really difficult to connect and stay connected, in the same places I am used to running with my mobile phone, with no problem.  It's disappointing.  

[SunsetRunner]

I think that is one of the problems with this kind of forum. We might be
all experiencing slightly different issues. We get what seems like a lot
of info from other owners, and a little generic feedback from fitbit saying
it's a known issue and they are working tirelessly on finding a solution,
but it might be that it's only us on this thread with these GPS problems
and we're in possession of broken watches, and fitbit aren't actually
working on our problems at all. I think you're watch could well be broken
if it's actually not picking up GPS

[gkinfinity]

I realize this is like asking for the earth and sky in getting a real response from Fitbit on this but have to ask anyways - Can we please have an update and timeframe for if/when the Run app will be corrected/released?  Is there a beta update in progress?  Something we can test?

I am experiencing the same issues as others in this forum (stride length estimate x pace being used improperly for real time distance traveled).  I've done some tests with my car and the bike app along with testing different runs on the same loop to confirm the GPS hardware of my Ionic is fairly accurate and I have an open ticket with customer support regarding this as well.  After viewing others' responses on this thread, I'm certain I have different reps responding to me in emails than others have for their open cases. 

I was hoping Fitbit might be able to give us a collective response for all the similar open cases regarding the Run app issue and provide an update with some tangible information. 

[BahGahWah]

Hi, agree there maybe different issues giving a similar behaviour.  Through this post, I have been able to see some correlation to my own experience.   I feel the GPS receiver is functioning, and the issue is with how the ionic is interpreting / calculating the distance.

You maybe able to check your own Ionic to see if this is the same experience for you, by exporting the .TCX file from the dashboard and checking it in a 3rd party website like the one below.  The distance shown appears to use the GPS coordinates collected by the Ionic, and appears to be more in line with what I would expect from the traces I have tried.  If the trace doesn't match then you maybe correct and it is a hardware issue and would potentially return the Ionic for repair / replacement / refund.

https://www.sportdistancecalculator.com/import-gpx.php

I carried out a further experiment to try and understand the behaviour of the GPS.  I have attached the route trace from the Ionic, which shows 0.0 distance measured over approx. 2 mile route.  This potentially shows that the Ionic is not using the GPS to measure distance.   The output is as per my expectation, if the assumption is that the distance calculation is using steps. The capture was while driving between two points with no steps taken, therefore 0 distance measured / recorded. 

[byankster]

I just got my Ionic and plan on running on the treadmill later today. I'll give an update on how accurate the GPS is on a brand new device.

*** just trying to lighten the conversation a little.

[SunsetRunner]

My guess is that you'll get some distance. The running program seems to
use steps and stride length, at least at the beginning of a run

[Denodan]

Gps does not work inside. And being in  one spot wont get proper gps data if you get it at all.

Think all fitness watches fail with treadmill running.

[SunsetRunner]

You'll see if you try it. It'll use stride length and cadence, which is
obviously a good idea if you haven't got a GPS signal, but oddly enough it
uses it at the beginning of a run whether you have a good signal or not and
doesn't seem to only use GPS until you're 5 minutes in

[samgillespie]

The sad truth is that this thread has been running since the 4th Oct 2017 and we still don’t even have any estimate of a fix, I am left with a £300 gps step counter which for pacing my runs is useless and worse than the charge 2 and my iPhone. I feel that Now it’s time to get a little more serious and so that other runners that need an accurate fitness smart watch are aware of the issues with the ionic, I will be writing an accurate review on the website I bought my ionic on, based on my experience of the product so that they can make an informed decision. If others do the same then maybe we will be taken seriously. I am sorry but coming from a fan of Fitbit, I just feel I have been ripped off here. 

[BahGahWah]

Just finished another 5km parkrun measured at 4.77km.  The person I ran with measured the run at 5.11km on an iPhone.  

Have exchanged messegaes with Fitbit;

”As discussed, we are still investigating your case. Our engineers are aware of the problem and are working to resolve it as quickly as possible.”

If this is a fundemental issue affecting all Ionics why aren’t all the product reviews on the web picking this up.    You would expect that if it affected all Ionics that @Fitbit would put significant resources to resolve and drop a patch.  Consider how often apps on your phone are  updated.  

Shareing the experiences using the Ionic is a good idea, maybe to see if the issue is wide spread. 

[bmw54]

I suspect there are so few negative reviews because competitive runners do not use Fitbit products. At starting lines of races everywhere I enter, from local 5Ks to the Boston marathon, I never see fitbits on the wrists of racers. Most people reviewing the Fitbit aren't giving them the kind of tests we are.

So why do I persist in using Fitbit? Dunno, but if the Run app isn't corrected by spring's race season I'll be moving to garmin. And of course that matters little to Fitbit, they have my money.

[RealSting]

•  
• During your run, try to keep your arm movement consistent to avoid losing steps. 

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This has nothing to do with the OP. Steps are not the issue and do not contribute towards accurate GPS data - they have nothing to do with the GPS itself. Though many know atmospheric and geographic conditions affect GPS, its clear from the GPS inaccuracies that Im experiencing the issue(s) are more than that. I've been using GPS devices since the late Jurassic period from a multitude of manufacturers and have seen how some have struggled to get the firmware right - often because of a poorly designed/placed GPS antenna! If an engineer can could simply put on an ionic and test it for a few weeks they would see that the GPS data isn't what it should be - in my case varying +- 50 meters over a 4km range in open skies during the afternoon away from the city with little overhead obstruction both in radio and physical. Im not expecting a consistent +- 3 meters that current GPS offers! but somewhere close would be reassuring for my data collection.

[BahGahWah]

@SantiR  @Fitbit Can you provide a status update on the investigation undertaken since your last update.

Have your our engineers actually looked at the issue or is this just a holding statement?

Have your engineers been able to recreate the issue ?  If they have not feel free to ask them to contact me directly as I am able to consistently observe the issue.

If they have recreated the issue does it affect all users?

If it doesn’t affect all users, has any correleration been identified?  

If it doesn’t affect all users would we be advised to exchange the hardware?

If software / firmware when can we anticipate an update.  Surely @Fitbit has a realease roadmap.  

Lack of updates / progress from Oct to now, makes users suspect that this is a fundamental hardware issue, as it can be assumed a software resolution would be easily deployed. 

[JT200SX]

I posted a review on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/review/R1PB7T3QLPWJ8E/ref=pe_1098610_137716200_cm_rv_eml_rv0_rv), and quickly received the following response from Fitbit.  As the Amazon review received a response almost immediately, perhaps more people should post a review there, so this receives more attention...  

Fitbit Support   11 hours ago

Hello James,

We're sorry to hear the experience you had with the Ionic's GPS. This a known issue and our engineers are looking into this. We're doing our best to get this resolve the soonest possible time and we hope everything back to normal soon.

If you need further assistance, you my reach out to us directly at https://contact.fitbit.com and we'll take it from there.

Sincerely,
Fitbit Support 

[SunsetRunner]

Out of interest, do you know for sure that your GPS is inaccurate? My main
problem has seemed to be that the running app weirdly uses stride length
and cadence at the beginning of a run, rather than simply using GPS (even
though the watch says I'm connected) to calculated pace and distance. I was
initially dubious when another poster suggested that the ionic does this,
but it definitely appears to be the case - you can let the ionic set your
stride length automatically or you can set your own, so I experimented with
a gigantic stride length setting and sure enough, fitbit thinks I ran well
inside world record pace for a few minutes before gradually approaching my
true pace after 5 or so minutes. Perhaps the testers were always running
at a constant pace, and so their stride length was reasonably constant, and
they don't see enormous errors, whereas many runners certainly don't do
this, so, for example, when I run a 5k it uses my stride length from my
previous slow jog and underestimates speed/distance at the beginning of the
race. Today I ran a parkrun, which is 3.11 miles I believe, I entered a
stride length that I calculated from previous 5k races and the ionic
behaved better, although imperfect. It said I had run 3.05 miles, which is
more accurate than it had been, but it still took a while to slot into the
correct pace, saying I was running very slowly for a minute or so, which is
where I reckon the distance was lost too and my first half mile split was
less than it should have been. It also seemed that the current pace jumped
around a little less than previously. It's a very unsatisfactory
workaround, but I might set the stride a little longer and see if I can get
it more accurate, it might then be that total distance average pace etc.
are accurate, and I just have to ignore the current pace for the first
minute or so.