Ionic GPS Inaccuracies

[MP4]

Hi, 

I'm a new Fitbit user, bought an Ionic on Monday and I'm having some issues with the GPS. Went on a couple of runs (at a track) and the gps seemed to be completely out both on the distance travelled and pace per kilometre.

I'm a long time strava user so yesterday I went for a run with both the Fitbit Ionic going and the strava on my iPhone running at the same time. Here are the results:

Strava - 7.9km   @ 4:15/km

Fitbit - 7.2km     @ 4:34/km

The difference of 0.7km is quite big and the difference in pace is also worrying. I waited till both had connected to gps before starting the run and I run in London where gps signal should be good. 

Is my Fitbit Ionic GPS not working correctly? Any help/advice would be appreciated. 

Thanks

Matt

Moderator Edit: Updated Subject for Clarity

[MattyW]

When I run my local Parkrun, my Ionic usually reckons I'm running about 2.95 miles, as opposed to 3.11 or whatever it is.  To me, this is unacceptable, but I mentioned it to Fitbit support and was told it was a tiny discrepancy.  They obviously weren't runners.  On inspection of my split times, I reckon the lost yards are near the beginning of the race - the first half mile split might be a minute too long, and examination of my pace on the Fitbit app shows that I'm gradually accelerating, whereas in reality I think I'm at race pace more or less immediately.  On a related issue, the current pace seems to jump around wildly - I think they should consider applying some sort of smoothing to make it more usable.

[gladtobe]

My phone via runkeeper recorded my park run at exactly 3.1 after I had
applied 'fix gps' on the runkeeper map. Fitbit recorded 2.95miles. This is
a small but significant difference if you are a runner and affects speed
per mile etc

The only thing that pleases me is that fitbit ionic records a shorter
rather than longer distance.


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Moderator edit: personal info removed

[Frank00]

I found inaccuracies with official race distances with my Surge that I never experienced with my 10-year old Garmin.  

Fitbit seems to have gone for more of the fun rather than fitness route.  They are gateway devices to a Garmin (or even Apple watches have better GPS!).

[Frank00]

If you can't get distance in the time/distance equation right, you should just call it a Funbit.

[bmw54]

I’ve suggested in earlier posts that I suspected Fitbit was using stepcount * stidelength to calculate pace and distance. 

In my mind this was the only logical reason for ionic measuring training runs correctly whilst it significantly errored on race day.

finally, in a chat session with Fitbit support they told me they do use stride length and had logic to recalculate it with GPS measurements every 10 minutes.

in a 5K race this would be a critical problem, especially if your time is sub twenty minutes.

the rep also told me that Fitbit engineering was aware of and working on solutions.

I’ve started to use the biking app  when I run in order to get GPS measured accuracy. I’m waiting for a better running app but suspect Fitbit may have left the competitive runners outside their business model.

[Smackems]

That's fascinating! That makes sense with the results I'm seeing. When
I'm doing a recovery run I feel like everything I'd actually really
accurate, but when I do workouts or tempo runs the distance is understated
and the pace overstated.

Thanks for sharing your experience with Fitbit support.

Just a question - for training purposes, have you ever just exported the
raw file to Strava or something? I know that isn't helpful for pace during
a race, but does it at least seem accurate that way?

[bmw54]

I’ve downloaded the data file and found the Geolocation data was accurate and I was impressed by how frequently it’s measured. 

I havent exported it because I was more interested in having a device to assist my pace strategies while racing - particularly in marathons.

this leaves me with the knowledge that I own very good   hardware that’s betrayed by its software. If I can wait long enough I’m hoping an app developer will write an app  suitable for racing. In pursuit of  that I’ve offerred my data to the app community. 

But try a tempo session  or 5K at race pace using the biking app.

[Denodan]

Lets just say. The ionic is so bug ridden its not funny. Heart rates inaccurate, very snail like syncing, slow app.

I ended up with a smart watch, not apple, and can tell you its far better.

The smart watches have it all over ionic with heart rate accuracies.

And now better than any of the fitness trackers.

Found my ionic such a pain to use. Syncing issues,painfully slow downloading, sometimes would sync other times not.

I have tried to love this watch, but still full of issues that were never fixed in lastest update.

They are working hard on producing apps and watch faces to catch up with others at the expense of not fixing issues with the watch and painfully slow app.

To even update anything is miles slower than the old 56k modems.

Why is it so painfull slow to download a watch face which are in themselves so small and apps are not big either.

I have tried hard to love this watch, but retiring it for better things.

[Joff1979]

Have had the same issue today. A regular 10k run has come up half a km short. This is extremely demotivating and a combination of this,  the spotify issue, the lack of apps and the slow performance makes me think this needs to go back. Total waste of money

[Joff1979]

This is the final straw for me. Had this issue today. A fitness tracker that doesn't track runs correctly...not good enough. 

This along with the spotify issue, the slow response of the screen when checking the time, the lack of watchfaces and apps, and the broken notification system means that this is being returned. 

Bye bye fitbit

[Dudemanbubba]

I'm out...  The gps irregularities and the fact that the bluetooth cannot connect to wireless ear buds without cutting out were it for me.  Going to test the waters and see how much the poor battery life of the apple watch annoys me.  I guess if it is tracking my distance properly and I can listen to my music without issue, I may be able to accept that.  Ionic returned today...

[gladtobe]

Hi don't understand the Bluetooth bit....have used a Bluetooth headset with
this watch since I got it 6 months ago and it's never not worked.


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Moderator edit: personal info removed

[Dudemanbubba]

Bluetooth ear buds (2 separate ear pieces not connected with a tethered wire)?  I had a pair that works, but they only work with the watch on my left hand and the master ear piece is the left unit.  If I turn my head to the left at all, the sound goes out while walking and moving.  If I am sitting still, they will work okay.  I bought three different sets from three different manufacturers.  All of them did this with varying degrees of cutting out.

Also... Fitbit has acknowledged this is a design issue and that their engineers are working on it.  However, they provide no ETA on a fix or guarantee that it can or will be resolved.  It sounds like a weak bluetooth receiver to me since the headphones work fine with all other devices I have connected them to so I am not convinced it can be fixed with a firmware upgrade.

[MattyW]

I just thought I'd mention my recent experience with the GPS when running - it really is a little infuriating, and I'm not sure this hasn't got worse since the update. 

When I run, I frequently look at my watch to see my current pace. I have a reasonable idea of the pace I'm running purely on how fast it feels - for example, if I'm running at 6.30/mile it feels very different from 8/mile which in turn feels very different from 9.30/mile - but, for me at least, running at 7/mile and 7.15/mile might be hard to distinguish - at least over a short distance. 

With my Surge this worked fairly well, it seems.  If I accelerated, there tended to be a short lag before the display accurately showed my current pace, so if I was running intervals I'd probably start accelerating a few seconds before the interval started.  Occasionally, for a few seconds, the Surge would show an anomalous looking pace, but it would sort itself pretty quickly, and it seems to me that if it said I was running slower than I really was for a few seconds then it would then say I was running faster for a bit.  I'd assumed this was to do with a momentary inaccuracy in the GPS.

With the Ionic it works much less well for me.  I had thought that most of the problem was at the beginning of races.  Say I'm running at 7/mile pace, I reckon I'm on pace within a few seconds of the start, but the Ionic isn't accurate for the first quarter of a mile or so - it shows I'm running more slowly than I actually am - very noticeably so - often the first half mile split is a good min/mile slower than I'm actually running.  This is where the inaccuracy in distance is occurring.  

Now, until the other day I'd thought the problem was just at the start of races (note I'm connected to GPS when this happens) but it seems it's every time I accelerate.  I hadn't noticed this because I hadn't been running intervals but now I am and it's really noticeable.  I'm running half mile intervals and it takes maybe a quarter of a mile before the watch shows anything like the pace I'm running.  I ran some strides the other day - which, I believe, is jogging with some short much faster sections.  Now I believe I was jogging at say 9.30/mile and then running fast (for me) at maybe 5/mile for 50 meters or so.  A weird thing happened - and it happened each time I did it, maybe 5 times in total:  Not only did the watch fail to register how fast I was going - it only went up to about 8.10/mile - but when I slowed back down to 9.30/mile pace the watch initially started to show I was going at a very slow 13/mile or so before going back to 9.30.

I hope this info doesn't all just read as babble, and can be helpful to the engineers - the watch definitely hasn't been working well for me as far as this goes, and I've already had a replacement for another issue and it definitely has happened with both watches.  I wonder if any users are getting a trouble free experience using the watch when running these kind of intervals.

[bmw54]

Marty, this thread has become so long that you probably haven't read all of it. But I've been reporting a similar experience: the faster I run, especially in the shorter races, the slower the ionic measures me, while also under-reporting distance. Both errors are very significantly wrong. This renders the ionic as worse than useless when racing.

This led me to believe that ionic was recording GPS accurately but not using it for distance and pace. I strongly suspected it was using stride length and step count to measure distance and pace. This would serve joggers well by removing some of the erratic readings you see when using pure GPS data.

Most others in the thread doubted that theory but every 'experiment' I conducted pointed to stride length. 

Finally, in my second chat  with a Fitbit rep he admitted that they use stride length and that their strategy was to re-measure it every 10 minutes. (Make sure your stride setting is set to automatic)

He also told me, as always, that their engineers are aware of a problem and to be patient. He didn't seem to understand that race pace is faster than training pace and that you adjust pace during the course of a race.

this strategy makes the ionic fine for joggers but useless for competitive runners. I've started to use the biking app for pure GPS pace and distance while I wait for an enterprising app developer to create an app for racers. 

In all likelihood I'll need to move to another tracker by the time I start racing again in March.

[Frank00]

Inaccurate measurements of distance in the distance/time equation affects anyone that uses a fitness watch.

I would say the watch is useless for any runners or joggers who want to guage, improve or maintain their times no matter what their speed or distance.

I think Fitbit should have improved the fitness aspect of their devices prior to adding additional functionality to the mix as with this Ionic.

I made those suggestions to Fitbit after my experience with the Surge, though their direction was to try to compete directly with the Apple watch by adding more social media and other apps rather than fixing their basic fitness shortcomings.  I hope it works out for Fitbit for the sake of their employees and I hope there are enough people out there in need of glorified step counters.

People really into fitness might try Fitbit devices one time, but quickly they will notice the problems with GPS accuracy and move on to another brand's product.

[Denodan]

The stupid thing is Apple and Samsung smart watches are far more accurate than any of the fitness watches.

I ditched my ionic as the main fitness watch and notice samsung do updates far more freqently and regularly update firmware.

This is something we see where fitbit fail to do, but are rushing to catchup with apps and watch faces at thd expense of very slow firmware updates and not fixing the main issue with connection issues that many are reporting are still having issues.

Let me tell you, the smart watch does a better job and as for hr monitoring Apple and Samsung have the most accurate hr monitors, but they are still not perfect as they when really pushed drop out like any fitness watch.

The only issue with the smart watch is you got to connect to the app first, then the fitness app.

Found a step to km convertor and seems the ionic step counting is well under. While none are perfect and out to some degree, fitbit ionic is well under, samsung over, but far closer to the steps you should be getting per km or mile.

[mrepetto]

I just went out for my first run in a few weeks... in 9 degrees F!  But that's not why I am posting again.  My experience today confirmed for me that the Ionic is using stride length to calculate distance and pace during the run.  As it's winter here in Michigan and the roads are snow covered, I needed to "tread carefully"... thus my stride length was shorter than normal.  So, what happened during the run is that the Fitbit was telling me that I had hit my mile markers earlier than normal.  When I say "normal", this route is one that I have run 100+ times, so I know exactly where the mile markers are.  It appears that, during a run, the Ionic counts my steps and uses my existing run stride length to calculate distance and pace.  So, if, on slippery roads, my stride length is shorter, then the Ionic calculates a longer distance than I've actually run... which makes the in-run Ionic data pretty much useless.  Fortunately, I export the tcx file to SportTracks and then I correct the the distance in SportTracks... so, as many others have stated, it seems that the Ionic records the correct data, but does not use that data during the run.  Argh!  If Fitbit does not provide an update so that GPS is used to report in-run data, then I will be returning the watch.

[Frank00]

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@Denodan wrote:

The stupid thing is Apple and Samsung smart watches are far more accurate than any of the fitness watches.

I ditched my ionic as the main fitness watch and notice samsung do updates far more freqently and regularly update firmware.

This is something we see where fitbit fail to do, but are rushing to catchup with apps and watch faces at thd expense of very slow firmware updates and not fixing the main issue with connection issues that many are reporting are still having issues.

Let me tell you, the smart watch does a better job and as for hr monitoring Apple and Samsung have the most accurate hr monitors, but they are still not perfect as they when really pushed drop out like any fitness watch.

The only issue with the smart watch is you got to connect to the app first, then the fitness app.

Found a step to km convertor and seems the ionic step counting is well under. While none are perfect and out to some degree, fitbit ionic is well under, samsung over, but far closer to the steps you should be getting per km or mile.

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Garmin has been selling accurate GPS watches for around 15 years.  No comparison.

[Frank00]

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@Denodan wrote:

The stupid thing is Apple and Samsung smart watches are far more accurate than any of the ...

Garmin has been selling accurate GPS watches for around 15 years.  No comparison.