Intermittent Fasting

[hawkinsblake]

Hello,

Hey everyone just wanted to start a quick topic to see if anyone else has tired, failed, or is curious about Intermittent Fasting. In the case of intermittent fasting (IF), the "diet" actually refers to periods of fasting, meaning you are restricted to eating very little—or nothing at all—for periods of time lasting anywhere from 16-24 hours. It may sound a little crazy, but intermittent fasting has been suggested as an effective weight loss tool, with research supporting its ability to increase fat oxidation, reduce body weight, and accelerate fat loss. 

The central idea behind the implementation of intermittent fasting is to reduce overall calorie consumption, ideally resulting in weight loss. Typically, IF protocols will have the individual undergo a period of intentional severe calorie restriction (ranging from 0-25 percent of the individual's normal daily caloric intake) for a period of 16-24 hours. Following the restrictive phase, the individual returns to relatively normal energy intake for 8-24 hours, depending on which version of IF they are following.

I am doing the 16 hour fast where I consume nothing but water and a cup of black coffee in the mid morning to hold me over. Then I eat my normal range of calories for the day in an 8 hour window. For me this is from Noon to 8pm. I am on my 5th day so can't atest to being an expert but I am loving all the research I have found and was just curious to see if there is anyone else out there.

[kcarmi]

Divedragon

Not a problem for me, black coffee in the AM- about 2 cups, (anyone tried "bullet proof coffee") and water.  Ate at 1:00 (avocado, scrambled eggs and sausage) then nothing (except water) until I got home at about 7:45 PM.  Not hungry all day!

[kcarmi]

hawkinsblake

That's remarkable and exciting to hear!  Do you eat throughout the 8 hr window or mini-fast between your first and last meal?  Do you count calories?

[kcarmi]

cotonpal

He made me a believer and I almost want to bust out and tell everyone I know to watch his series!!! 

[hawkinsblake]

No mini fast. All the benefits from fasting come after a 10 hour period once the fast is broken you're not doing much for yourself benificial by doing mini fasts. They say one of the best ways to stay on track is to track your food. When I started on my jouney I did count calories but slowly transitioned out. I randomly will throw some items into my food traker on the Fitbit dashboard but don't go crazy logging every single thing. I am a big proponent of consistancy in my diet and I belive that is what helps me stay on track. Everyday at noon I have a scoop of whey protein just to give my body quick nutrients along with a peice of fruit usually an apple or bananna. At 1 I have lunch which is usually 2 trader joes chicken patties (SOOO GOOD) at 300 cals for the two and usually a frozen veggie steamer. I then have a "snack" around 3:30 which is usually more veggies or another scoop of protein. My "cheat" is daily when I get home from work around 5 and that is a bowl of cereal. Then dinner around 7 which I strive to incorperate a lean protein, a complex carb, and a whole bag of greens.....that doesn't change up much and once in a while I give myself a real cheat meal and without fail I usually drop 2-4 pounds after the cheat.

Blake

[kcarmi]

Well it's certainly working for you!  They say the most sucessful stories are from those who keep their diet consistant.  I've been IF (16/8) for about 12 days now.  No weight loss but I'm sure there has been fat loss.  I think I've swapped fat for muscle as I work out usually 2-3 days each week depending on my schedule.  Naturally, I'd love to see the scale go down but I'm content with the results for now.  I'm doing my own experiment with nutritional ketosis as I know from the past, my body does much better on low carb.  Thanks to Cotonpal, after watching Dr. Jason Fung's series on the "Aetiology of Obesity" I believe it's right for me. Regardless of the diet, I feel great doing IF and it keeps me structured with when the eating window starts/ends. 

[Darlynn]

Hmmm, this seems to be working. 2 pds down already...  At this rate, I will lose the 30pds that is my goal before September 2016. My target month.

I am also jogging with arm weights and walking, so I suppose it isn't all water weight?

[divedragon]

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@Darlynn wrote:

Hmmm, this seems to be working. 2 pds down already...  At this rate, I will lose the 30pds that is my goal before September 2016. My target month.

I am also jogging with arm weights and walking, so I suppose it isn't all water weight?

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Timing is important on this as far as exercise is concerned.  Make sure you're exercising in a fasted state.  If you can, do resistance training just before you break your fast.  Growth hormones are at their highest at that point and will help building the lean mass to help burn more calories in the long run.  That way you won't become the proverbial "skinny fat".

[Corney]

I discourage fasting.  If you weigh 200 LBS, your body needs 3000 calories a day, when its not getting it's 3000 calories it goes into starvation mode.  Your body will not deplete it's stores of carbohydrates in case of fight or flight situations.  It will not use up your fat stores because fat is the most efficient method of storing calories, so it gets it's needed calories from burning protein( muscle). when you lose muscle you burn fewer calories everyday.  Diets without 20 minutes of continous aerobic exercise are doomed to fail. If diets worked there wouldn't be hundreds out there.  How many of yor friends dieted to lose 10 pounds but after going off the diet they gained back the 10 they lost but gained another 5-10 pounds.  That weight gained happened because during the diet they lost muscle mass, their Basal Metabolic Rate slowed done due to the loss of muscle mass.  Diets without aerobic exercise cause the YoYo effect, lose weight, gain weight, lose weight, gain weight, which is dangerous to you health.  Quote your research

[trynabefitchick]

Ive been doing 16/8, more like 19/5 for 3 days eating about maybe 1100-1400 a day, plus working out for 30min to 1 hour a day (Cardio and weight training). 5 2 140lbs trying to get down to 115-118. my scale has not buldged. too early? =/ how long do u think itll be till i see results?

[Corney]

 I don't recommend fasting for weight loss, because it plays havoc with blood sugar levels and the hormone cortiso.  By fasting you are putting your body in starvation mode, where it motabolizes carbohydrates first, and then gets it's needed calories from metabolizing protein( muscle mass).  At 140 pounds your body needs 2100 calories to maintain that weight.  Your calories intake equals between 1000 and 700 calories deficit per day and along with your exercise program that deficit could be as much as 1300 calories.  It takes a deficit of 3500 calories to lose 1 pound.  If you are doing at least 20 - 30 minutes of cardio in your aerobic zone you should be burning fat for the last 10 minutes,also you weight training helps to limit loss of muscle mass.  Instead of fasting try eating 3 healthy meals a day at you present calorie intake. You should expect to see a weight loss of about 2 punds a week.  But I always tell people that they don't want to lose weight you want to lose fat, that's why I don't recommend fasting of any kind after all we all fast 6-8 hours when we sleep. Keep up with your program results will come.

[cotonpal]

From Dr Jason Fung's blog intensive dietarymanagement.com:

"Starvation mode, as it is popularly known, is the mysterious boogieman always raised to scare us away from missing even a single meal. Over one year, approximately 1000 meals are consumed. Over a span of 60 years, this equals 60,000 meals. To think that skipping 3 meals of the 60,000 will somehow cause irreparable harm is simply absurd. Breakdown of muscle tissue happens at extremely low levels of body fat – approximately 4%. This is not something most people need to worry about. At this point, there is no further body fat to be mobilized for energy and lean tissue is consumed. The human body has evolved to survive episodic periods of starvation. Fat is stored energy and muscle is functional tissue. Fat is burned first. This is akin to storing a huge amount of firewood but deciding to burn your sofa instead. It’s stupid. Why would we assume the human body is so stupid? The body preserves muscle mass until the body fat becomes so low that it has no choice."

Dr Fung uses intermittent fasting as a therapeutic approach for people with type 2 diabetes and/or obesity. The above quote comes from his blog post on fasting myths found here: ttps://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-myths-part-5/

These are the myths he lists:

Fasting puts you in ‘starvation’ mode
Fasting will overwhelm you with hunger
Fasting causes overeating when you resume feeding
Fasting will make you lose muscle
Fasting deprives the body of nutrients
Fasting causes hypoglycemia
The brain needs glucose to function
It’s just ‘crazy’

He then goes on to explain why these are not true. 

Jean

[emili]

I can't fast because I'm like a toddler and need food or I get "hangry" and I said this somewhere in this string of posts before- but @cotonpal I felt compelled to post again. I want to copy and paste this everywhere. Take out a billboard - hire a band to sing it on repeat. Everytime someone whips out starvation mode I want to tear my hair out or theirs over the nonsense that is coming out of their mouth. I am keeping this post forever and the next time someone warns an overweight person about starvation, I am posting this. I can't tell you how many times people would tell me I'm starving while I was losing weight. Looking at me you can clearly tell no one was starving least of all my two chins. Happy New Year!!

[dualarrow]

I've been doing an IF for only a bit over a week and have seen it working very well. I dont count calories, I just try to eat clean food (mostly).

I found a lot of handy info in Yuri Elkaims site at https://yurielkaim.com/the-5-meal-per-day-myth-and-your-belly-fat

[Corney]

Intermittent fasting is a foolish fad.  When you fast, the body seeks the calories that it needs but is not getting.  It first metabolizes carbohydrates, then it goes after protein found in your muscles.  when protein is metabolized urea is one of it's waste products and is excreted in urine.  You lose weight but not fat, the weight you lose is muscle mass and fluid, plus it plays havoc with Blood sugar and the hormone cortisol.  People who say they want to lose weight really want to lose fat, fasting does not cause the body to metabolize fat.  The only way to make the body meyabolize fat is with at least 20 minutes of continuous aerobic exercise in your aerobic zone.  Before people engage in this foolishness they should consult their Doctor, or talk to a nutritionist.  I'm a retired Physical Therapist and was the exercise consultant for a surgical Bariatric program.  The only clients that actually lost fat were the ones that utilized 20 or more minutes of aerobic exerice in their aerobic zone.  Those that didn't all lost weight but their % body fat increased because they lost muscle mass and became dehydrated.  I wish this idea of intermittent fasting would go the way of all the other crazy diet schemes that have all proved to fail.  It seems everyone trying IF are all looking for an easy way to lose weight.  Rather that looking at your scale get a body analyzer and keep tract of % body fat, then you will see that IF is not the way to lose fat! 

[Corney]

He is all wrong.  If you have seem pictures of starving children in Africa, they have no muscle on their limbs but have a big belly.  These Doctors? that advocate fasting are msking money on selling books.  Our bodies metabolize carbohydrates first, but will not deplete all of our stored carbohydrates because some are needed for the fight or flight response.  Fat is the most efficient way to store calories, so the body uses these as a last resort, because the body wants above all to survive.  After using up usable carbohydrates the body starts metabolyzing protein(muscle mass).  When pretein is metabolized one of the waste products is urea which is excreted in urine.  The body loses weight because it loses muscle mass and it becomes dehydrated, but IT DOES NOT LOSE FAT!  I'm a retired Physical Therapist and was the exercise consultant for a surgical Bariatric program.  Clients that included at least 20 minutes of aerobic exercise in their daily routine lost weight and fat!  Those that didn't lost weight but their % body fat increased dut to the lose of muscle mass.  When you lose muscle mass, you become less fit, your Basal Metabolic Rate decreases, then when you stop the fasting and go back to normal eating, you gain back all the weight you lost plus more.  You can't continue IF forever, when you stop, that wondeful weight loss that you are so proud of will disappear and you will gain more that you lost.  How many people out there have gone a calorie restricted diet to lose 10 -15 pounds, only to find when they stop the diet gain back what they lost plus more.  DIETS, like IF, never work, unless you add at least 20 minutes of aerobic exercise and some strength training.  Losing weight is easy, keeping it off is hard.  Just ask Oprah, and she had her own personal trainer.  ONCE again people say they want to lose weight but what they really want to do is lose fat.  Throw away you scale and get a body analyzer to keep tract of your % body fat.  Without aerobic exercise as part of you daily exercise regimem, everyone who subscribes to urealistic diets and IF are doomed to fail.  For three years I followed clients of the Bariatric program and have the research to prove it.  People would lie to me and tell me they were doing the aerobic exercise as prescribed, but I got them on the body analyzer, the truth came out, their % body fat increased, I made a believer out of them.  They started the aerobic exercise for at least 20 minutes and added some weight lifting and their % body fat decreased.  I will tell all who will listen, follow my advice and you will succed in losing fat, if not, IT"S NOT MY BODY!

[I-train-hard]

Corney- I agree with you 100 %.

One problem- people don’t want to listen, their choice.

[Darlynn]

So the message is IF plus workout.  I believe that is what most people on here do.

Personally, 4 small meals between 8am and 4pm is taken.  In this time frame is included, over 1 hr of jogging, and the drinking of lots of water (over 8 glasses usually). 

After 4pm, all the tea and water I want, is consumed...  I find that I feel amazing in the morning, as opposed to eating a heavy meal in the evening.  I actually dislike that full feeling in the evening.

As with everything, education and proper application is the key...  Besides, I have a friend who accomplished her weight loss by juicing and having only 1 meal a day and has kept it if off for over 2 years nows, although she just recently told me that, when I mentioned my weight loss goal to her.

Happy New Year everyone and happy weight loss in 2016. Don't get discouraged.  Keep it real and discuss what will work with you with your medical doctor and know your personal determination and limits.

[cotonpal]

Darlynn - This is what I do. It's what works for me. About 10 years ago I started eating a low carb, moderate protein high fat diet. That's the way I still eat. Over that period of time I have lost 115 pound, from 245 to 130. When weight loss seemed stalled at around 150 I added IF, the 8/16 type, like you breakfast and then mid afternoon. Eating usually stops at 4PM, sometimes a little later. I drink coffee, tea or water whenever I want. I also added about 2 hrs per day of walking. Those two additions brought my weight from 150 to 130 where I am at now. I seemed to have stopped losing and that's fine. I am trying to add in a little strength training. That's still a work in progress. Many other things have improved under this regimen. No more heartburn, arthritis, only in my hands,  no longer progressing, dry eyes gone, no more strange rashes, no more asthma, blood sugar normalized. I am 67 years old and have never felt better. I think this combo of low carb diet, walking and IF is the perfect plan for me. I eat only real food and have cut out grains and dairy. I can't see a thing dangerous in this nor can my doctor who I only see once a year for an anual exam so she won't forget who I am.

Happy new year to you too.

[Dominique]

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@kcarmi wrote:

I've been IF (16/8) for about 12 days now.  No weight loss but I'm sure there has been fat loss.  I think I've swapped fat for muscle as I work out usually 2-3 days each week depending on my schedule. 

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Sorry to spoil the party, but no significant "body recomposition" (which swapping fat for muscle would be) is going to occur in a period that short.

There is only so much new muscle mass one can gain in one month time. For estimates of muscle gain potential, you can check this article.

[Corney]

The only way to know how your body id responding to IF is to purchase a scale with a body analyzer, they can be purchased fairly reasonably on line for about $40, it also gives you your % body fat, BMI and hydration.  If IF realy works your % body fat will decrease, and you will not become dehydrated.  I'm tired of defending aerobic exercise as a healthy way to not just lose weight but also lose body fat.  Anyone thinking about IF or the Ketogenic diet should talk with their Doctor first, He/She is the only one who knows about your health and can give you the pro's and con's of both as it regards your personal health.  Everyone's body and health is different, any posts here touting ones's sucess with either plan is only ancedotal and pertains only to that persons situation.