weight loss and calorie counting....

[dondiego]

My wife and I have been using our fitbits for 2 months and we average 10,000 steps a day. In addition we are consistently UNDER our calorie goal daily and we have not lost A POUND!! I hear all these stories about weight loss and I think they are a myth, unless the individual has been totally sedate. We don't eat bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, refined sugar, soda or diet sodas. We drink TONS of water and yet nothing.....we don't get it!!!

[lynnslaw]

No! You don't have to starve. And from what you have posted you are
already superwoman! If you only cut 500 calories per day you will still
lose weight but at a slower pace. 3200 calories = 1 pound. Right? So go
slowly at first. It was really had for me to adjust my diet so that I was
full and satisfied. Cut the high fructose corn syrup ingredient in
anything you eat. Go non GMO. Stay away from bread - substitute with
Ezekiel sprouted bread. Rice wraps. Almond crackers. Rice crackers.
Kind bars. Use Mayonnaise judiciously. Two servings of vegetables on your
plate. AND most importantly Drink the water!!!! Stay with us and
hopefully we can help.
Lynn

[Dominique]

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@lynnslaw wrote:
Cut the high fructose corn syrup ingredient in anything you eat. Go non GMO.

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Cutting unnecessary sugar is a good idea indeed: drink water instead of soda, learn to drink your coffee without sugar, your tea without honey etc. However, it doesn’t matter whether your sugar is the "real" thing (white or brown), or comes from high fructose corn syrup, or from honey: a carb is still a carb, and a calorie is still a calorie (regardless of what Gary "Good calories, Bad calories" Taubes says). Same with GMO vs. non-GMO: eating GMO stuff doesn’t make you fat, it’s overeating calories (whether they come from GMO or non-GMO sources) that makes you fat.

[OCDOC]

@Dominique

So much of what you post is excellent, yet you still cling to the 'flat earth--a calorie is a calorie' nonsense.

It boggles my mind that you haven't stopped saying this! Here's a nice summary:

https://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

"Take Home Message

Saying that weight (or health for that matter) is simply a function of “calories in, calories out” is completely wrong.

It is a drastic oversimplification that doesn’t account for the complex metabolic pathways that different foods go through, or the effects that foods have on our brain and hormones."

No serious nutrition scientist challenges this; to declare the opposite is silly (and if I didn't know you are a serious fitness guy I would suggest a hint of trolling; I don't think you are trolling but you have dug in so deep to this notion that you won't accept science..whatever). PS Dr. Robert Lustig's lecture on sugars is more interesting and science-based than anything of Traubes..google it..it's the one with 6 million+ views. Traubes is a 'science reporter'...nothing wrong with that but his talks are a bit wonky.

PS GMO wheat is nothing at all like wheat 100 years ago. The introduction of Dwarf varieties decades ago by 'traditional' breeding was bad enough; newer GMO wheat has little in common with what people ate ages ago. The massive rise in Celiac Disease and NCGS (Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity) isn't mass hypochondria..it's almost epidemic.

[glitterNfunk]

I've finally found progress by working the fitbit goals.....all of them.  If I consistently get those green lines and increase my goals just a itsy bit each week, the weight comes off.  I stay motivated by joining challenges and working towards climbing the ranks in my friends list.  I even found another app that lets me join more challenges with people using fitbit, garmin, apple watch, etc......growing my support and motivational network.

It is coming off slowly but I like that.  Its about changing habits and making getting healthy my new way of life.  If my average weekly weight this week is a little less than last, I'm happy.

Put in the work but have fun with it!  : )

[Heybales]

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@OCDOC wrote:

@Dominique

So much of what you post is excellent, yet you still cling to the 'flat earth--a calorie is a calorie' nonsense.

It boggles my mind that you haven't stopped saying this! Here's a nice summary:

https://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

"Take Home Message

Saying that weight (or health for that matter) is simply a function of “calories in, calories out” is completely wrong.

It is a drastic oversimplification that doesn’t account for the complex metabolic pathways that different foods go through, or the effects that foods have on our brain and hormones."

No serious nutrition scientist challenges this; to declare the opposite is silly (and if I didn't know you are a serious fitness guy I would suggest a hint of trolling; I don't think you are trolling but you have dug in so deep to this notion that you won't accept science..whatever). PS Dr. Robert Lustig's lecture on sugars is more interesting and science-based than anything of Traubes..google it..it's the one with 6 million+ views. Traubes is a 'science reporter'...nothing wrong with that but his talks are a bit wonky.

PS GMO wheat is nothing at all like wheat 100 years ago. The introduction of Dwarf varieties decades ago by 'traditional' breeding was bad enough; newer GMO wheat has little in common with what people ate ages ago. The massive rise in Celiac Disease and NCGS (Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity) isn't mass hypochondria..it's almost epidemic.

---

A calorie is a calorie.

How your body deals with them could vary a lot or minor from the average response, depending on how sick it is.

How much nutrition those calories carry along with them obviously depends on what you eat.

But to think that the first think to look at in a diet is NOT changing calories (which your linked article even admits up front, then contradicts itself) is also silly.

The article also skims by several points and gets several wrong.

Fructose, and other carbs, are going to be stored in the liver. But also the muscles if you have used any from there for probably exercise.

ALL carb's that are extra - even from your GMO-free gluten free yada yada yada vegetables/grains will eventually be stored as fat if the liver and muscles need none, and energy needs in the next 4 hrs don't use them up while insulin is elevated.

Fructose isn't the only carb that could eventually cause the insulin problems at that point.

Nothing special about fructose there - not sure why it discussed as if it's effect is any different than any other carb eaten  from vegetables or grain.

Also, that 30% is the high end of range of TEF for protein, even the linked Wiki article shows that from the study. If you are eating some tough meat, then great. If you are eating incomplete vegetable proteins - head on back down to the 15% level, and then count those amino acids as being unused and eventually turned to glucose and if not needed then same as above - fat.

So, now actually do a diet with 2 vastly different extremes in macros for what is eaten, and unless you are just eating a lot of calories, the amount the body is getting isn't that great a difference.

Actually compare different sides of the range of diets with average normal eating - "healthy" perhaps some may say - the difference will be even less.

Got any research showing that GMO wheat is dealt with by the body differently than wheat 100 years ago.

Or that your correlation with celiac problems is causation actually?

Oh, massive rise? or massive rise in people attempting to go gluten free not because of any tested issue but because of fad response?

[honeybunny86]

No i only want to lose 30 lbs. The 1000 calorie deficit is what it gave me. On average weekly i walk 35 miles. Half of that is up steep inclines.

[honeybunny86]

I dont drink soda and havent for nearly two years. I already cut sugar from my coffee a year ago. I dont eat rice because it makes me sick...no i didnt have weight loss surgery i get that question a lot when i say it makes me sick. I rarely each bread. I prefer and try to stick to meat and produce. This week i have only consumed about 300 to 400 calories a day.

[lynnslaw]

Dominque,
I definitely disagree with you on this one. Calories are one thing but the
genetically modified foods have been proven to add belly fat. They
metabolize differently and promote bing eating due to the chemical nature
of the organism. There is much to read on GMO, liver toxicity and
appetite. Google will keep you busy for months! Since cutting GMO out of
my eggs, bread, cereal, rice and veggies I have definitely moved forward in
weight loss and energy levels.

[shipo]

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@Dominique wrote:

...a carb is still a carb, and a calorie is still a calorie

---

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@Heybales wrote:

A calorie is a calorie.

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 Have to disagree with you both; here is just one of a great many discussions refuting the OWT (Old Wives Tale) stating "A calorie is a calorie":

• http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/a-calorie-is-not-a-calorie

[SunsetRunner]

check the nutritional information on the packaging

diet coke - zero calories? guess what? it has 2!

at least the UK one has

[Heybales]

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@honeybunny86 wrote:
No i only want to lose 30 lbs. The 1000 calorie deficit is what it gave me. On average weekly i walk 35 miles. Half of that is up steep inclines.

---

You have forgotten that during setup YOU selected that calorie deficit - it did not at all.

It is merely doing the math with what YOU told it to do.

You need to change it to 500 to encourage just fat loss on reasonable deficit.

And at 20 lbs left, if that is your only exercise walking - change it to 250 cal deficit - or else you risk losing muscle mass.

Do that - and you'll be back here next year attempting this again, but easier to gain the weight and harder to lose it next time.

[Heybales]

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/a-calorie-is-not-a-calorie

1. The energy cost to metabolize fat, carbs and protein is different

The body must use energy to digest, absorb and metabolize the energy in food. And it so happens that the body uses different amounts of energy to process different energy-containing nutrients. Generally, more energy is required to process protein than carbs, and more energy is required to process carbs than fat. What this means effectively is that a 2,500-calories-a-day high-protein diet adds fewer calories to the body than a 2,500-calories-a-day high-carb diet, which in turn adds fewer calories to the body than a 2,500-calories-a-day high-fat diet.

Admittedly, the differences are small. They do not in themselves constitute a rationale to consume a high-protein, low-fat diet for weight management.

So mathmatically speaking it's exactly as I said above - there are differences in TEF - but in real world usage it really doesn't matter as it's no where near a low hanging fruit for weight loss. Oh weight, no fruit because of fructose.

2. Calorie restriction slows metabolism

Won't copy this whole section - because yep very true. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the premise.

A calorie is still a calorie, but if you get stupid and lower your metabolism that badly - you'll have to eat way less to compensate for the effect. It's not a good situation at all, so best to avoid by taking reasonable deficit, and going to maintenance every so often.

But the calories still count for what they are - different ratios isn't going to stop that effect.

3. Protein reduces appetite

Yep, so you feel full on less calories of more are protein. But there are still people that overeat protein and don't lose weight, overriding principle of calories matter still trumps this.

It may personally make it easier for someone though to eat less calories than they burn to lose fat weight.

I do enough endurance cardio that if carbs is where it should be to fuel good workouts, and I attempted that ratio - I'd be eating way too many calories.

Rest of the points start dealing with the minutae of losing weight - and if you are watching the calories in general, the other little tidbits aren't going to help compensate for that and magically have you lose weight anyway.

This is much like the debates about things that can in theory effect training and performance. In specific people at specific levels of performance already, sure those minor things may be the only thing that allows them to keep making progress.

But until you get to that point - the aspects of training adherence and progression far outweight those other things.

So if you are looking to get from 8% to 4% bodyfat and not lose any muscle as body builders will be attempting to do - then many of the minor things matter ALONG with a calorie deficit that is required to lose weight in the first place.

For someone trying to get from 40% to 25% - knock yourselve out on those things, but you better pay closer attention to the calories and adherence because that will have a bigger effect on you.

[Heybales]

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@lynnslaw wrote:
Dominque,
I definitely disagree with you on this one. Calories are one thing but the
genetically modified foods have been proven to add belly fat. They
metabolize differently and promote bing eating due to the chemical nature
of the organism. There is much to read on GMO, liver toxicity and
appetite. Google will keep you busy for months! Since cutting GMO out of
my eggs, bread, cereal, rice and veggies I have definitely moved forward in
weight loss and energy levels.

---

GMO in all those items?

Interesting.

And you know this how?

There are plenty of things to read on GMO - much science based - a whole lot more no where near science based, many of the latter seem to like pointing to the same reference work that isn't science based.

Any studies that don't include force feeding non-humans a huge amount of GMO food?

Just like wheat was mentioned prior.

This was interesting read on wheat and some of the claims made it against it I've commonly heard.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0733521013000969

That's great the changes had a positive effect on you.

Doesn't mean it's required. Just means it could be useful for someone else. Or may not be.

[honeybunny86]

I was just asking. Ok. Not everyone has to jump down everyones throat around here. If that is the case than clearly say hey you mad a mistake and heres how to fix it. I also stated that walking is not my only form of exercise. But thank you for your wisdom non the less

[Dominique]

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@lynnslaw wrote:
Calories are one thing but the genetically modified foods have been proven to add belly fat. They
metabolize differently and promote bing eating due to the chemical nature of the organism. There is much to read on GMO, liver toxicity and appetite. Google will keep you busy for months! Since cutting GMO out of my eggs, bread, cereal, rice and veggies I have definitely moved forward in weight loss and energy levels.

---

A couple of weeks ago, @OCDOC posted a interesting review from the American Heart Association (called  "Dietary Review and Recommendations"). The review (40 pages) is available in PDF format here. Pages 28 to 39 are references to studies quoted (405 of them), so you can pretty much say it’s evidence-based.

Here is what it concludes on GMO foods (p. 11):

"Based on current evidence, whether a food is organic or genetically modified appears to be of relatively small health relevance in comparison with the overall types of foods and diet patterns actually consumed (Table 2). Health and environmental effects of both organic and genetically modified foods require continued evaluation as these technologies progress."

So yes, Google may keep me busy for months, but Google is full of anecdotal evidence. The point is: there aren’t serious studies yet that clearly show a negative impact of GMO food on health. At any rate, even if non-GMO food is healthier than its GMO counterpart (which may very well be the case), there are far more efficient ways to favour weight loss than discriminating GMO vs. non-GMO. For instance, I’d rather eat GMO veggies treated with pesticides than non-GMO organic sugar. But in the end, GMO only affects a limited amount of food products, at least where I am (Europe). I’m not aware the spinach, zucchini or green beans I eat would be genetically modified.

[OCDOC]

Thanks for the mention @Dominique; I'm glad you linked the Heart Association article. It's a great resource.

I spoke with one of Canada's top NCGS experts a few weeks ago, and he's not sure what to make of the massive surge in people complaining about gluten sensitivity. The actual number of people with laboratory-proven Celiac seems stable, yet there are myriads of people who feel lousy when they eat processed wheat.

There's speculation that over-refinement is probably the problem (and 'whole wheat' is still over-refined..just white flour with bran added). There's also concern re breed manipulation. The last 60 years has been all about improving yield per acre (dwarf wheat helped pull India away from starvation catastrophe and the guy who bred it won the Nobel prize), but nobody worried much about the total nutrition effect for the rest of the world's populations.

GMO to try to save people from starvation is a good thing IMO. However, GMO to make food prettier or have a longer shelf life (ie things that help the sellers make money) is what concerns people, especially where food isn't scarce. Eg that new apple that doesn't go brown-- 'Arctic Apple'-- is GMO; do we really need that?

Anyway, there are a ton of people who feel better when they quit refined grains, and I refuse to believe that they are ALL kooks 🙂

PS I feel bad for bugging you about the 'calorie is a calorie' thing..just a peeve. Your contributions here are generally excellent 🙂 Rob K

[Emujo]

You can't convice me that a calorie is a calorie...1500 calories worth of Pizza and beer just makes me sleepy and sedintary for the evening. That same amount in a  bowl of oatmeal, a chicken breast wrap, and a Subway chopped salad gets me out the door for a 8 mile walk. Emujo

[Dominique]

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@Emujo wrote:

You can't convice me that a calorie is a calorie...1500 calories worth of Pizza and beer just makes me sleepy and sedintary for the evening. That same amount in a  bowl of oatmeal, a chicken breast wrap, and a Subway chopped salad gets me out the door for a 8 mile walk. Emujo

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Take your typical pizza eating, beer drinking couch potato, drag him into a Subway and force-feed him a healthy salad: this won’t automagically turn him into a fitness freak with an urge to complete a semi-marathon. Health-conscious people who live an active lifestyle tend to make better choices regarding food, it’s not eating some magical superfoods that turned them into what they are.

If you take two people who expend 3000 calories and eat the same baseline diet for the first 2000 calories: on top of that, one will eat 500 calories worth of pizza, beer or any other "unhealthy" item you can think of, while the other one will eat the same 500 calories worth of super-healthy foods: they will experience the exact same weight loss (consistent with a deficit of 3000 - 2500 = 500 calories), because a calorie is a calorie. Granted, the first one will not get as many vitamins, minerals, fiber etc. as the second one, which will have an impact on overall health, but from a weight loss point of view, it doesn’t matter.