Ionic GPS Inaccuracies

[MP4]

Hi, 

I'm a new Fitbit user, bought an Ionic on Monday and I'm having some issues with the GPS. Went on a couple of runs (at a track) and the gps seemed to be completely out both on the distance travelled and pace per kilometre.

I'm a long time strava user so yesterday I went for a run with both the Fitbit Ionic going and the strava on my iPhone running at the same time. Here are the results:

Strava - 7.9km   @ 4:15/km

Fitbit - 7.2km     @ 4:34/km

The difference of 0.7km is quite big and the difference in pace is also worrying. I waited till both had connected to gps before starting the run and I run in London where gps signal should be good. 

Is my Fitbit Ionic GPS not working correctly? Any help/advice would be appreciated. 

Thanks

Matt

Moderator Edit: Updated Subject for Clarity

[shipo]

I've discovered three different variances from actual which have been exhibited on both models:

• Tracker totally loses satellite lock part way through a run (which results in either the plotted track showing me stopping where the lock was lost, or a straight line back to my finish point).  This would happen a couple of times per month with my collection of Surges, it has happened three times in total with my Ionic since the first week of October.
• Tracker would lose lock on one or more satellites part way through a run (which results in a skewed plot for the duration of the loss of lock).  This would happen weekly with my Surges; it has happened only once or twice with my Ionic.
• Tracker would pretty much plot an accurate course, however, the variance from actual would be off by as much as a quarter mile for a 10-mile run.  This was nearly a daily occurrence with my Surges; it wasn't unusual for my normal 10.15 mile run to be reported as high as 10.3 miles and as low as 9.85 miles.  For my Ionic the variance is much smaller, more in the neighborhood of 10.22 on the high end and 10.05 on the low end; that plus the variance is more like once every other week versus almost daily.

[groberge]

 If you read through the rest of this thread and see all of the problems that many people are having with the lack of accuracy on the Ionic, then you'll understand.  You must be one of the lucky ones who don't have the issue.

Right now I wish I had a Surge to go back to.  My previous Fitbit was a ChargeHR which doesn't have its own GPS.

[bmw54]

And if you read my post comparing the Surge to the Ionic you'd see that, for me, Ionic inaccuracy is just one factor that's pushed me back to the Surge.

The main driver occurred on the day my Ionic died.

But don't worry, that's somewhere in your future.

[MarreFitbit]

Hi @Tex52! Thank you for the thorough feedback for the Fitbit environment, customer service and devices. This has not gone unnoticed and be sure that I will pass this along.

We don't want to create frustration in our customers. Fitbit has been designed to provide motivation and help you to reach your daily goals to success. Please know that we provide feedback to our team based on community posts and we are always working on improving our devices and overall environment based on that feedback.  

What my friend @SilviaFitbit mentions about the algorithms, is that the algorithms used in Fitbit devices are the same, so you should see no more than a standard 4% variation between them. It's possible to get different readings if the trackers are worn in different locations (dominant vs non-dominant wrist). I'd recommend reviewing the accuracy information provided in this help article. 

Thanks for sharing your experience with your Fitbit Surge and Fitbit Ionic @bmw54. At least 24 GPS satellites are constantly in orbit around the Earth and broadcasting data. All GPS devices, whether your phone or a Fitbit device, require a direct path to these satellites in order to receive their radio transmissions. If the signal is blocked—either because you're underground, near many tall buildings, or as a result of atmospheric effects—GPS won't work. While GPS gives you a more accurate measure of distance than step counting alone, the actual accuracy depends on both your environment and the weather.

If the GPS signal is lost, your phone or Fitbit device continually searches for a GPS signal as long as an exercise is in progress.

Thanks for sharing your experience between both Fitbit devices @shipo!  

I know this can be odd for you guys @groberge @Smackems @crossd1111 @Dickys3, but as @SilviaFitbit mentioned in her last post, our team is aware of the issue related with distance discrepancies. The OS 1.2 introduced some fixes that helped to improve accuracy, make sure you've updated your phones to the latest version. 

Your patience and understanding is truly appreciated! 

[SunsetRunner]

Thanks for that. So if, as some people seem to think here, they get much
more accurate results from, for example a Garmin, do you think it's because
the Garmin is just better at picking up a GPS signal, or because the Garmin
has a better algorithm? Or maybe the individuals with these problems just
have a faulty Ionic? Also, I was wondering if you had any reply from the
engineers as to why my Ionic solely uses stride length and cadence at the
beginning of a run, and only gradually switches to GPS over the first 5-7
minutes, despite seemingly receiving a good signal (or is it just
recalibrating stride length while the run is in progress?)

[the_one]

I was holding out a lot of hopes on the latest software release but nothing improved for my watch. Are there any further software updates planned for fixing the GPS or is this a case of hardware design/chip flaw?

[bbarrera]

Garmin only uses GPS to calculate distance.

Fitbit run/hike/walk modes use stride to estimate distance. And because stride can change during a run, Fitbit periodically updates stride during the run. During a run if you change pace frequently, say while doing interval/fartlek training, that can lead to errors in Fitbit's distance estimate because the pace isn't accurate. If you run steady state, at a single or slowly varying pace, then you won't see the distance error.

Fitbit cycling mode uses GPS to calculate distance.

[SunsetRunner]

Do you know their rationale for using stride length and frequency, rather
than GPS? Do they believe it's more accurate?

[waldobosman]

I have moved to Polar and did already a couple runs.

The runs are withing 100meter difference, same run everytime.

Not once lost the GPS signal, where the ionic lot several times it's signal.

To me, it's a fault in the device, if it's the algorithme or contruction (antenna, power to the unit), clearly it's needed to be fixed.

[shipo]

---

@bbarrerawrote:

Garmin only uses GPS to calculate distance.

Fitbit run/hike/walk modes use stride to estimate distance. And because stride can change during a run, Fitbit periodically updates stride during the run. During a run if you change pace frequently, say while doing interval/fartlek training, that can lead to errors in Fitbit's distance estimate because the pace isn't accurate. If you run steady state, at a single or slowly varying pace, then you won't see the distance error.

Fitbit cycling mode uses GPS to calculate distance.

---

To say I H-I-G-H-L-Y doubt the above statement is a gross understatement.  I routinely do trail runs with lots of hills and very technical sections; my stride length can vary from as little as 15 to 20 inches to high as 50 inches in the same run; I have no such distance calculation issues.  It is my understanding the Run mode of the Ionic is just like the Run mode on the Surge, namely, the stride length is completely ignored when GPS tracking is active.

[groberge]

Thank you for the reply MarreFitbit.  I've updated my Ionic to version 27.31.1.29 and my phone app is at 2.67.1, which I believe to be the latest versions.

I understand that these issues can take some time to fix and I appreciate that the engineers are working on it.

My biggest point of confusion is that when the .tcx file from my Ionic/Fitbit app is uploaded to another site, the distance comes out nearly perfect every time.  This doesn't seem to be a hardware issue since the distance is correct in the data file.  All it should need to do is read the file like any other GPS software does.

You mention the part about the GPS losing signal around tall obstructions and other areas but my phone GPS doesn't lose signal during these times.  Any time that my Ionic has lost its signal during a run, it is never able to reconnect even though I normally start and end my runs at the same place so if it has it at the start, it should at least have it at the end.

Since my Ionic is way past the point where I can return it for a refund, I'll continue to test any new updates as soon as I can get them.  If this isn't resolved by the time I'm ready for a new watch, consider me a lost customer.

[SunsetRunner]

Try this-enter a very long stride length into your settings - maximum
length. If it's anything like mine then the ionic will estimate that you
are going ludicrously fast. At least for the start of your run. Let me know
how it goes if you could.

[groberge]

Based on this reply, it's obvious that you have an Ionic that is working correctly.  Many posts in this thread have done testing that proves that the stride length is used on their particular Ionic device to figure out distance on runs.  People have put the Ionic into Run mode and driven a certain distance and because there were no steps involved, the Ionic had the distance very low.

I H-I-G-H-L-Y doubt that you can understand what us users who are having the issues are going through so although it's working correctly on yours, you have no idea how it is or isn't working on ours.

Congratulation on having an Ionic that is working as it should, but there's no reason for you to come into this thread and tell us what is and isn't happening with the Ionics that are having issues when you haven't experienced it yourself.

[SunsetRunner]

Well it is a valuable contribution, if it shows that we, with the
problems, just have watches that are defective, which may be the case
rather than a problem with the way fitbit calculates things. That's why I'm
asking the poster to try what I suggest. It may be that some of us have
faulty watches and some don't.

[Smackems]

If the Ionic run app only used GPS to track distance then I would be happy, however that's just not the case.  If it was then I doubt they would continue to work on making updates. 

I ran a 16 mile run.  The GPS data tracked by the Ionic was correct, however; the watch itself said I ran 15.31 miles.  If you don't see an issue with that much a discrepancy then we aren't going to agree.  

I'm happy that the Ionic is working well for you.  I don't really understand why you continue to discount this large contingent of users who are having issue with their device?  Most of the people in this thread have pointed to specific experiences that show the hardware functions correctly, but the software is misrepresenting that data by non-negligible amounts.  I would think that instead of expending energy trying to say we're incorrect, why don't you help other users that have questions in other threads?

[groberge]

I understand that not all Ionic users are having the issue but to come into a thread regarding GPS Inaccuracy where many people are having an issue and tell us that we are wrong in what we are seeing is not necessary.

[shipo]

---

@grobergewrote:

I understand that not all Ionic users are having the issue but to come into a thread regarding GPS Inaccuracy where many people are having an issue and tell us that we are wrong in what we are seeing is not necessary.

---

Just calling it as I see it; if we all have the same firmware, and we are are using it the same way, then the only potential difference is flawed hardware.  If these issues were software related, then everybody would have an issue.

[bbarrera]

---

@shipowrote:

To say I H-I-G-H-L-Y doubt the above statement is a gross understatement.  

---

@shipo Look at this post earlier in this thread:

https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Ionic/Ionic-GPS-Inaccuracies/m-p/2527307/highlight/true#M34708

BahGahWah tracked a run driving in the car, no steps and Ionic recorded 0.0 miles. 

Pretty simple experiment:

- start Run mode on Ionic

- wait for GPS lock

- get in car

- drive around the block in a residential area at slow speed, ideally holding arm outside the window

- finish run

Want to help contribute this thread? Do that experiment and post a screenshot of map and distance.

[bmw54]

@groberge, @SunsetRunner: for months I've resisted responding to those who swear their Ionics are working perfectly. That seems pointless to me because it's not contributing in any way to those of use who've repeatedly presented empirical evidence that the device is, in fact, using step count. 

Most people don't even acknowledge how much of a failure this strategy is when executing racing and interval training strategies.

I've been motivated by the hope that Fitbit engineers (or other app developers) will find a way to correctly use the data our GPS trackers are recording. Perhaps our Ionic's are faulty. I should be able to confirm this when I receive my replacement Ionic (which has been circling the city on FedEx trucks for the past week).

If the new Ionic performs like the old one I'll just check out of this forum, abandon my loyalty to the Fitbit company and look for an alternative. In the meantime my crusty old Surge keeps tracking accurately.

[groberge]

I get it.  I tried ignoring some of them also but it got to the point where I was sick of people telling us how wrong we are because our Ionics don't work while theirs works perfectly.

I'd be interested to hear your experience when your new one comes in.  If it is indeed a hardware issue, I would hope that Fitbit would allow us to exchange them at no cost to us.

In fact, maybe they should work to find one that is experiencing the issue so they can test with it on their own (if they don't already have one).  I'd be happy to provide mine in the interest of helping the others who are having the same issue (as long as I get one in return...;-))